<div dir="ltr">Hello Noah<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">"changing the subject line to allow for proper followup"<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Noah Maina <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mainanoa@gmail.com" target="_blank">mainanoa@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Which is why I was arguing that LIRs shouldn't seat on the space allocated but use it extensively. If customers want ips give it to them.</p>
</blockquote><div>Lots of LIR don't practice this, they kind-of encourage NATing by giving their users a few public IP and when the user ask for more, they attach a fee to it. A typical ISP gives max of a /28 for free and everything beyond attracts an extra fee. You can imagine a typical institution with over 40,000 users assigned a /28 for use.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">There is one thing announcing an aggregate to ones upstream! Then there is another thing ensuring that a good percentage of that same aggregate has been utilised well downstream....whose business is that? For the internet to develop allocations have to be somewhat utilised IMHO and more acquired. </p>
</blockquote><div>You made a valid point, an scenario is having a /16 advertised and using 1 for NATing and say another 4 as DSNAT to internal server running private IP. This has become normal practice that is almost turning to a culture. <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">We have no problems assigning our customers ip addresses. They get amazed by it because to us its more business and confidence from our customers. We also encourage our customers to send us everything I mean everything especially those with their own allocation and ASN. </p>
</blockquote><div>+1 and good for you by doing that. Just to ask, do you in anyway check to confirm if your customers are indeed utilizing the requested block?<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">As for Saun's experience that is outa this world. ..eish...that provider sounds old school but thats wats up! !!</p></blockquote><div>You can say that again, it may shock you to know that the provide is a major ISP in the continent! <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">And for the old NAT, its here to stay. ..you wanna kick out out....start from its inception which is collage and academys where Fundamentals of Routing are taught lol...NAT/PAT is like a 1st time ideology embibe onto any aspiring network engineer...then there is the believe that NAT offers some sort of security lol.<br>
<br></p></blockquote><div>Hopefully v6 will kick-it out finally, in generation to come though ;)<br><br></div><div>Cheers!<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr"><br></p>
<p dir="ltr">Cheers. </p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p dir="ltr">Noah</p>
</font></span><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On 19 Jul 2014 09:12, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div><i>There are quite a number of members who are yet to deploy any subnet of the resource allocated to them. There are reasons why this can happen; for example, the upstream provider of a member (which I am contact) attach a recurring fee to block advertisement.
This to me was quite surprising and we are still trying to avoid that cost either through convincing the current provider or moving on to another!</i></div>
<span>
<p dir="ltr"><i>Nevertheless, I don't think there is any member in that category that will successfully get additional allocation.<br>
On a lighter note, this could raise a question on usage and whether a policy is required to "ensure" usage ;)</i></p>
<p dir="ltr">That’s about the most bizarre thing I’ve read in quite a while… as a provider I want my members to advertise every block of space they possibly have to me – the more they advertise to me, the more traffic flows via me to them, the more transit
I sell them. I really don’t understand the logic behind some providers.</p>
</span>
<div>Let’s face facts, IF a provider has customers that have their own space and their own ASN, its in the providers interests to encourage as much advertisement as possible. However, on the converse, it is in a providers interests to have customers on space
assigned by them and not running BGP at all (in the latter case, it means the customer probably isn’t multi-homed, and for the customer to churn the customer will have to renumber, which can be a MAJOR headache, meaning the customer is far less likely to move
on).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It’s an interested dialectic, it is in AfriNIC’s (and hence it could be argued the communities) interests to have as many people as possible with their own space and their own ASN’s. However, it is in the interests of providers to encourage the uptake
of space out of their own blocks assigned by AfriNIC and discourage this behaviour. At the same time, what amazes me about Africa and the substantive use of NAT, it is NOT in a providers interests to have customers behind NAT, and I wonder if this isn’t something
we could use to promote the uptake of IPv4 on the continent. The simple reality is, a customer behind NAT can churn in an instant, the changes required on the customer side are minimal. However, a customer on a providers space that is NOT running NAT and
has the space all over the place has to renumber which could be a downtime and OPEX intensive activity. (I’ve actually seen research that shows that non-NAT customers are
<span style="font-weight:bold">FAR</span> less likely to churn, it reduces the churn rate by double digit percentage points).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrew</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div>
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