<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Just that considering the recent exhaustions in other region, Africa seem to have become the cake on the table with all regions grabbing their cutleries to have their share of it ;). So don't you think it will be good to make those IP resource available to companies like you (that has base in Africa) so that even when you go abroad you will still have IP to use (considering that v4 addresses is almost exhausted in that region)?<br>
<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>It’s a fine idea. However, the question is whether it can be practically and meaningfully achieved without collateral damage which exceeds the benefit.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>One of the usual question is to burn v4 to make way for v6; should we burn to external or burn within? Remember that Afrinic has the least of /8s among all the RIRs.<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think I am as big a proponent of IPv6 deployment as anyone on this list. The last 5 years of my life have been dedicated to trying to get IPv6 deployed faster, wider, and stronger.</div><div><br></div>IPv6 will happen at this point whether v4 burns or not. Anyone waiting for v4 to run out as an excuse to deploy IPv6 is ignoring reality. That whole </div><div>part of the discussion should be treated as a red herring. The real questions are:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Is the effort required to develop IPv4 policy going to yield sufficient benefit to justify that effort or is it better spent</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>on deploying IPv6?</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Can a policy be developed which provides for company’s like Ben’s without opening the flood gates for $OUTSIDE_MEGACORP</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>to simply buy or build a corporation headquartered in Africa which is “expanding” into $OUTSIDE_MEGACORP’s actual</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>home territories?</div><div><br></div><div>My opinion is that we discussed, debated, fought over, and otherwise pretty well beat this dead horse several years ago and came to the existing policy for the last /8. At the time, I felt that was good policy and I still do. However, I think putting further effort into rearranging it again is probably fruitless and would much rather see that effort spent on getting Africa running IPv6.</div><div><br></div><div>AfriNIC has the unique opportunity in the world in that we have the largest greenfield for internet deployment left. This means that we are in the unique position to leapfrog IPv4 policy and become an IPv6 leader if we choose. Apologies to anyone who takes offense at my use of the term “we” here. I recognize that I am not an African and that as such, my role here is somewhat limited. In the end, however, we are all citizens of the internet and together, we have the opportunity to build a functional IPv6-based global internet with addressing for all. That is the focus I would like to see going forward.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Kind Regards<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Ben. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br>
On 16 May 2014, at 19:22, "Seun Ojedeji" <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div><p dir="ltr">This particular one being a good example of a company that has roots in Africa. For me I don't think it's more about spending more energy in monitoring how you as a member use IP. It's more of reviewing applicants membership requirements.</p><p dir="ltr">Cheers!<br>
sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 16 May 2014 18:37, "Ben Roberts" <<a href="mailto:Ben.Roberts@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Ben.Roberts@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Speaking as an African multinational...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are headquartered in Mauritius and present with IP network in twelve countries in Africa and 2 in Europe. We are also RIPE members also and we pay a huge premium in LIR fees to Afrinic so I think I am entitled to use my IPs where I jolly well like
and will oppose any policy proposal to restrict or prevent us from doing so!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Ben</div>
<div>Liquid Telecom Group Director of Network Strategy. </div>
<div><br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On 16 May 2014, at 18:29, "Stephen Wilcox" <<a href="mailto:steve.wilcox@ixreach.com" target="_blank">steve.wilcox@ixreach.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 16 May 2014 18:13, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
</div>
<div>On 16 May 2014 16:56, "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I believe this is one of the pains that AFRINIC Hostmasters are trying<br>
> to deal with at the moment.<br>
><br>
</div>
Yeah and they can only try within the limits of the policy.
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>><br>
So what if we said that at least 50% of all<br>
> number resources had to be for equipment in Africa?<br>
><br>
</div>
Hmmm... that's could be an option. Perhaps also be helpful to look at reviewing the requirements that makes an organisation African enough to be consider for resource.
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>> Should be enough for a truly African ISP to use out of the area.<br>
><br>
</div>
Yeah 50% is a fair deal, although the other puzzle could be how to verify this after resource assignment is done ;) hence the reason why further vetting of organisation establishment status and purpose may be needed.</blockquote>
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</div>
<div>Just playing devil's advocate - but who will do this research and maintain it? What if an African multinational is acquired by a non-African company, does it have to free its resources? Or the other way around, a non-African company buying an African one
can they suddenly request huge amounts of IP?</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>> I'm looking at somehow disallowing an "African" entity from using all<br>
> the numbering resources out side of the Afrinic Region....<br>
><br>
</div>
Yeah a possibility that I just alluded to above. So the purpose of that African company should be checked. Things like:
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p dir="ltr">- What type of service do they provide and are they really services that utilises IP resource on physical infrastructures (such check more applicable to those applying as cloud services organization)<br>
- Who are their existing clients<br>
- History of establishment<br>
- Does employed staff and organisation base reflect as being continental.<br>
- Possibly a biannual check of resource usage statistics (if it's not a tall order)</p>
</blockquote>
<div>A company complicated enough to need this level of investigation and due diligence might well be a large company with a team of lawyers questioning how they can release information that may be under NDA. Indeed, how much client and contract information
is reasonable to disclose before it becomes a liability?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think the more complicated you make the rules, the more loopholes and corner cases you create, plus more bureaucracy and red tape. Simple rules will scale better..<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steve</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Those tall checks above may not prevent IP export, but it could ensure some functional provider establishment in Africa.</p><p dir="ltr">Hopefully we can see some policies proposals in that direction.</p><p dir="ltr">Cheers!</p>
<div>
<div><br>
><br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > Cheers!<br>
> > > Regards<br>
> > > Steve<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 16 May 2014 15:57, Saul <<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za" target="_blank">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>> wrote:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Personally I am in favour of keeping our resources regional. I<br>
> > think that we<br>
> > >> have all been offered large sums of money to get space and then<br>
> > sell it off<br>
> > >> the continent.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> But then its IP... does it really matter?<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> -----Original Message-----<br>
> > >> From: <a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a>] On<br>
> > Behalf Of<br>
> > >> Mark Elkins<br>
> > >> Sent: 15 May 2014 09:09 PM<br>
> > >> To: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> > >> Subject: [rpd] IPv4 policy on where space is used.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 21:46 +0400, Kofi ansa akufo wrote:<br>
> > >> > ....the resource was going out of the region....<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> As far as I am aware, the current requirement for getting address<br>
> > space is<br>
> > >> that you are a company properly established (all legal - as such)<br>
> > in Africa.<br>
> > >> There is currently no policy (except with the last /8) that states<br>
> > the<br>
> > >> resources you get have to be used in Africa....<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> This might be good.... (get rid of all the IPv4, start using IPv6)<br>
> > or Bad...<br>
> > >> (we are doing *what* with our resources???)<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Maybe some policy needs to be designed - how do people feel...<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> --<br>
> > >> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
> > >> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel:
<a href="tel:%2B27.128070590" value="+27128070590" target="_blank">+27.128070590</a> Cell:
<a href="tel:%2B27.826010496" value="+27826010496" target="_blank">+27.826010496</a><br>
> > >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:<br>
> > <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
> > >> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >> rpd mailing list<br>
> > >> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> > >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > rpd mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> > > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > rpd mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel:
<a href="tel:%2B27.128070590" value="+27128070590" target="_blank">+27.128070590</a> Cell:
<a href="tel:%2B27.826010496" value="+27826010496" target="_blank">+27.826010496</a><br>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" target="_blank">
https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> rpd mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>
><br>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div>
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