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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>They don’t have stats from the paper votes, unless they go into archives to retrieve them…but I doubt, barring proxies would amount to much more?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Kofi ansa akufo [mailto:kofi.ansa@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2014 12:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Saul; rpd@afrinic.net; ademola@ng.loopworks.com<br><b>Cc:</b> members-discuss@afrinic.net<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Saul thank you for sharing the stats. Doest it mean basically 29 members patronized e-voting (19 votes representing 4 countries) out of over 500 active members in the last election?<o:p></o:p></p><p>AFRINIC reach and positive impact on the continent could be translated into many members participating in the running and decision making processes if certain operational functions are distributed over the continent. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Presence around the region should not be overlooked.<o:p></o:p></p><p>This is another topic of discussion all together.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p>Kofi<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 14, 2014 11:09 AM, "Saul" <<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Guys, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry for a bit of cross posting, but </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For those of you that aren’t on the members-discuss list, attached is the voting numbers from last year’s election.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rather dismal.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t quite see the need for dividing the region, but would first like to see at a plan for AFRNIC to have better reach & impact to all of the region, all the major languages (maybe that creates a need to split into different divisions for the 3 major languages but under one roof)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Based on the attached voting stats (only e voting from last year), it is clear that very few control AFRNIC & there is serious work that needs to be done to enable voting, educate and encourage its members to participate.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kofi ansa akufo<br><b>Sent:</b> 13 May 2014 07:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> Boubakar Barry<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>; Andrew Alston<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p>There is in deed the need for restructuring and composition if our organisation is to remain relevant in the continents growth through enabling ICT promotion.<o:p></o:p></p><p>The election process should be then reviewed not to be just casting of votes relegated to decision taken by a few for many passive members but rather as means to kick the impulse in many members to be active to decide how the organisation is steered.<o:p></o:p></p><p>This brings to mind decentralization of AFRINIC operations across the continents to get many members actively involved and sensitized and not just light up during meetings. What is the status of that discussion?<o:p></o:p></p><p>I see countries like Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya with many members yet little or no operations of the RIR established there? <o:p></o:p></p><p>Something for thought :)<o:p></o:p></p><p>Kofi<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On May 13, 2014 7:38 PM, "Boubakar Barry" <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com" target="_blank">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Interesting discussions here.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think that what we can learn from all the expressed views is that AfriNIC has to seriously look at the election process, starting from the composition of NomCom and ending with the counting of votes.<br><br>Nobody in this world can claim having in place a _perfect_ system, but for our community, there is obviously room for improvement.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>And after improving what we have right now, we will for sure still have to improve again and again...<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Best,<br>B.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On May 13, 2014, at 6:02 AM, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a> wrote:<br><br>> Animal Farm is all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. That is not democratic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>True, but it also has no relationship whatsoever to the voting we are talking about. Each member organization still has only one vote.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>> Abuse is quite easy. I lobby to represent so many members who really care less about what is happening on Afrinic. I end up with so many voting rights. I even go further to get a few more colleagues to do the same. Collectively we can block votes in our own personal interest. That is not even far fetched.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I suppose that is possible, but I haven’t seen anything to indicate that it is actually happening or is likely to happen. Also, if this really is an issue, then wouldn’t others with competing interests have an equal ability to lobby for those same votes? Why would someone attempting to abuse the process have a greater advantage than one trying to prevent such abuse?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>> One voice should be one individual and one vote.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Repeating this over and over again doesn’t make it any more rational than the firs time you said it.<br><span style='color:#888888'><br>Owen</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>><br>><br>> Regards,<br>> Ademola Osindero<br>> CEO/Consulting Director,<br>> Lopworks Limited<br>><br>> <a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a><br>> Original Message<br>> From: Owen DeLong<br>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:54 PM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a><br>> Cc: Andrew Alston; Nii Narku Quaynor; <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting<br>><br>><br>> On May 12, 2014, at 11:39 PM, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a> wrote:<br>><br>>> Hi All,<br>>><br>>> My point is this is easily prone to abuse and would lead to Animal Farm situation.<br>>><br>><br>> You are repeating yourself. Can you substantiate this in any way? What is the abuse you expect from this?<br>><br>> What do you mean by “Animal Farm” situation? I doubt that we will be chanting “four legs good, two legs bad” at AfriNIC meetings any time soon.<br>><br>>> On Andrew's example of board directorship, a Director is allowed to cast a vote "on the board of each company he or she is present". That is completely different from the director trying to cast a vote on a platform including many companies he or she represents. The later is the case of Afrinic.<br>><br>> Do you think that other industry organizations prohibit people who are on the boards of multiple member organizations from voting for each and every organization they represent? I have never before encountered a situation where that is the case. If AfriNIC were to adopt such a policy, it would be quite unique in my experience.<br>><br>> If this is such a source of abuse, then why is it not a problem in many other organizations with similar processes?<br>><br>> Owen<br>><br>>><br>>> To be lenient, it is worth reviewing the limit on proxy votes as stated by Nii Quaynor.<br>>><br>>> Regards,<br>>> Ademola Osindero<br>>> CEO/Consulting Director,<br>>> Lopworks Limited<br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a><br>>> Original Message<br>>> From: Andrew Alston<br>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:22 AM<br>>> To: Nii Narku Quaynor; <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a><br>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting<br>>><br>>> Form my perspective, its a completely different issue.<br>>><br>>> People wearing different hats is part of life, and part of standard<br>>> business. Let me give you an example:<br>>><br>>> An individual holds directorships on multiple boards (this is very common<br>>> in business, and I can point to several examples).<br>>><br>>> That individual has the right to vote within the board structures of each<br>>> entity that he represents. Same thing.<br>>><br>>> Or, to put this another way, when an individual votes at the AfriNIC<br>>> elections, he does not vote as himself, he votes as a member. If the<br>>> member chooses to designate him the right to vote, that is their right as<br>>> member. To restrict an individual from representing multiple<br>>> organisations would be equivalent to saying, if you¹re a director of one<br>>> organisation, you cannot hold a directorship in another. If this were to<br>>> happen, it might be noted that this would potentially exclude a lot of<br>>> people from current and past boards who do hold directorships in other<br>>> organisations.<br>>><br>>> As stated by Ademola, one voice, one vote. The only thing is, it is still<br>>> one voice one vote, where one voice = ONE MEMBER, the people actually<br>>> costing the votes are the members, NOT the individual who is merely the<br>>> instrument through which the members voice is heard.<br>>><br>>> That¹s my opinion anyway<br>>><br>>> Andrew<br>>><br>>><br>>> On 5/13/14, 8:45 AM, "Nii Narku Quaynor" <<a href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank">quaynor@ghana.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>> Just curious. How different is this multi hat different from holding<br>>>> proxy? I recall Afrinic has a limit on proxy?<br>>>><br>>>>> On May 13, 2014, at 0:20, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a> wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>> What I find rather absurd is one person having multiple votes. What<br>>>>> kind of election is that? It should be one voice one vote and that<br>>>>> should mean one individual one vote.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Regards,<br>>>>> Ademola Osindero<br>>>>> CEO/Consulting Director,<br>>>>> Lopworks Limited<br>>>>><br>>>>> <a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a><br>>>>> Original Message<br>>>>> From: Owen DeLong<br>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:14 PM<br>>>>> To: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a><br>>>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>; <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting<br>>>>><br>>>>> I¹m sorry, but I think that is absurd. All it accomplishes is to force<br>>>>> organizations to scramble trying to find additional individuals to cast<br>>>>> their votes. It serves absolutely no useful purpose whatsoever, IMHO.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Owen<br>>>>><br>>>>>> On May 12, 2014, at 3:03 PM, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a> wrote:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> One individual one vote, irrespective of how many member organizations<br>>>>>> you are affiliated to. Once an individual's identity is associated with<br>>>>>> a member, then the person will cast vote for only that member and no<br>>>>>> other member.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Regards,<br>>>>>> Ademola Osindero<br>>>>>> CEO/Consulting Director,<br>>>>>> Lopworks Limited<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a><br>>>>>> Original Message<br>>>>>> From: Owen DeLong<br>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 10:58 PM<br>>>>>> To: <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a><br>>>>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> 2. Going forward IMHO I think we should discouraged multiple voting<br>>>>>>>> by<br>>>>>>>> an individual for different members since the probability of voting<br>>>>>>>> differently is low and this only goes to increase votes across one<br>>>>>>>> side only. A "polished form" of election rigging. I know some will<br>>>>>>>> argue one can still like gin with different credentials and vote one<br>>>>>>>> sided but then :)<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> Could someone from the community enlighten me on this please.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> To echo what Mark said in slightly less confrontational languageŠ<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> One member, one vote. Each member should be able to choose who casts<br>>>>>> the vote on behalf of that member. I see nothing wrong with members who<br>>>>>> wish to have the same person represent their interests doing so. It is<br>>>>>> not election rigging if 25 different member organizations all select<br>>>>>> the same person to cast votes on their behalf. Presumably each member<br>>>>>> organization is capable of choosing a voting representative who will<br>>>>>> vote in a manner consistent with their desires and interests. Likely if<br>>>>>> they were each forced to choose a different person in order to avoid<br>>>>>> being disenfranchised as you propose, you would simply see a larger<br>>>>>> group of voters who are potentially less informed and less motivated. I<br>>>>>> do not think that would be beneficial to AfriNIC, to the community, nor<br>>>>>> to the members.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> It seems to me that this is not in any way equivalent to stuffing the<br>>>>>> ballot box or rigging the election. If those organizations all pick the<br>>>>>> same person to represent them, either they trust that person to share<br>>>>>> their ideals/needs/wants or they trust that person to vote as they<br>>>>>> instruct on their behalf. In either case, that person is legitimately<br>>>>>> exercising the vote designated by the member organization on behalf of<br>>>>>> each member organization.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Owen<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>>> rpd mailing list<br>>>>>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>>>>><br>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>> rpd mailing list<br>>>>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> rpd mailing list<br>>>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>>><br>>><br>>> DISCLAIMER: This email contains proprietary information some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is for the intended recipient only. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email, please notify the author by replying to this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, print, or rely on this email. We cannot accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of this company or one of its agents.<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> rpd mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>