<div dir="ltr">Hello Gift, all<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Let me also add a few personal words below:<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 9:44 AM, gift <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gift@itibots.com" target="_blank">gift@itibots.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<br>
On general corporate governance standards and independence, my
view has been the board (or member of) should not be directly
involved in the running of the elections (by what ever definition)
other than by way of policy. As the sitting executive they have a
direct interest.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>+1 imagine the incumbent governor of a state in the electoral committee for that state's governorship election ;)<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div> But then this seems to be the model for member
driven organizations from ICANN to RIRS where board members occupy
a representative and ownership role which often appears
conflictual depending from which angle one looks. </div></div></blockquote><div><br>Well even ICANN noncom does not operate this way; A board member does not chair nomcom. Although it's good to note that perhaps the AFRINIC nomcom could not achieve consensus of whom to chair hence the reason why the board member became de-facto Chair (as per the bylaw). Nevertheless the main question is whether its even right for board member to be in nomcom in the first place. <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>A board member
is supposed to have the best interest of AfrINIC at heart yet he
also has personal interest about certain views and choices; out
going and incoming directors etc. They participate in choosing
Nomcom and then sit in Nomcom and certainly the opportunity for
undue influence exists as they are the appointing authority for
the supposed colleagues in Nomcom. As knowledge and experience on
these matters increase within AfriNIC community, I would advocate
that there should be no member of the board in Nomcom. The CEO can
support Nomcom adequately policy and admin wise. Best corporate
governance standards discourage an individual playing
multiple/dual roles which have a potential conflict of interest.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>The best i think board member should do is to perform liaison role in
nomcom. IMO the "backup" clause in the bylaw that allows a board member to Chair
nomcom needs to be reviewed such that the chair is a non-interest party. The best non-interest party for such role is the AFRINIC
staff. <br><br></div><div>However the other important and related one is that i am yet to find on the bylaw where it says board member is to Chair electoral committee. To make the situation quite a puzzle; the nomcom which is suppose to coordinate the electoral committee this time around find itself coordinating itself ;)<br>
<br></div><div>It is my hope that AFRINIC board will consider all this important comments; its not about the chair rigging election neither is it about conflict of interest.(personally those won't influence who i vote for). It is however more about giving room for due process and integrity.<br>
<br></div><div>The community will like to continue to see an AFRINIC as an organisation they can boldly defend and be proud of.<br><br></div><div>Kind Regards<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<br>
I guess democracy is dynamic a number of these issues <br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
GS<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13/05/2014 10:01 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Again, I would argue that this is actually normal practice.
Going back to the corporate example before:
An individual sits on 5 boards, he can vote on all 5 boards.
On board 1, comprising of 15 members, with a quorum of 10, 4 members cannot make a board meeting, and assign proxies to one individual to vote on their behalf. At this point, said individual on board 1 carries his own vote, and 4 proxies. Have seen that happen before in several cases.
What I *WOULD* like to see is that the proxy form contains a field where the member organization assigning the proxy specifies on the proxy form which way the individual casting the proxy shall vote, or an optional "discretionary" box. So when the proxies are allocated, the individual can be forced by the member organization assigning the proxy to vote in a particular way, or can specifically be granted the discretion to choose who he/she casts the members vote for.
This would eliminate a lot of the potential problems, where someone shows up with 5 proxies, and can potentially be influenced at the meeting to throw all his/her proxies behind a single candidate, since the votes are already indicated on the proxy ballot.
Just a thought
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Walubengo J [<a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com" target="_blank">mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 10:29 AM
To: Andrew Alston; Nii Narku Quaynor; <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
@Ademola,
jst to complicate matters abit with the following hypothetical case. I can carry 5 Proxies and still have additional 5votes for the companies of which I am a Director/Owner. Total votes individual cast =10.
walu.
Lesson Learnt: A proxy vote is not necessarily the same as a resource member vote. Or so i think.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/13/14, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a> <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank"><ademola@ng.lopworks.com></a> wrote:
Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
To: "Andrew Alston" <a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>, "Nii Narku Quaynor" <a href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank"><quaynor@ghana.com></a>
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2014, 10:03 AM
Dear,
If it has already been agreed to, I'm sure it was well reviewed by your noble selves, then it should be 5.
And that implies that an
individual could vote as many as 5 times while acting as a proxy.
Fair enough except
any case of abuse is shown.
Regards,
Ademola Osindero
CEO/Consulting Director,
Lopworks Limited
<a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a>
Original
Message
From: Andrew Alston
Sent:
Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:48 AM
To: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>;
Nii Narku Quaynor
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
Subject: RE: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
The limit on proxies was
already reviewed and reduced to 5 after the fiasco in Tanzania a few elections back.
This is as defined in the bylaws (I believe it's in section 12.12, but I'm open to correction).
Do you propose
to reduce this still further?
Thanks
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:40 AM
To: Andrew Alston; Nii Narku Quaynor
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
Hi All,
My point is this is easily prone to abuse and would lead to Animal Farm situation.
On Andrew's example of board directorship, a Director is allowed to cast a vote "on the board of each company he or she is present". That is completely different from the director trying to cast a vote on a platform including many companies he or she represents. The later is the case of Afrinic.
To be lenient, it is worth reviewing the limit on proxy votes as stated by Nii Quaynor.
Regards,
Ademola Osindero
CEO/Consulting Director,
Lopworks Limited
<a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a>
Original
Message
From: Andrew Alston
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:22 AM
To: Nii Narku Quaynor; <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
Form my perspective, its a
completely different issue.
People wearing different hats is part of life, and part of standard business. Let me give you an
example:
An individual
holds directorships on multiple boards (this is very common in business, and I can point to several examples).
That individual has the right
to vote within the board structures of each entity that he represents. Same thing.
Or,
to put this another way, when an individual votes at the AfriNIC elections, he does not vote as himself, he votes as a member. If the member chooses to designate him the right to vote, that is their right as member. To restrict an individual from representing multiple organisations would be equivalent to saying, if you¹re a director of one organisation, you cannot hold a directorship in another. If this were to happen, it might be noted that this would potentially exclude a lot of people from current and past boards who do hold directorships in other organisations.
As stated by Ademola, one
voice, one vote. The only thing is, it is still one voice one vote, where one voice = ONE MEMBER, the people actually costing the votes are the members, NOT the individual who is merely the instrument through which the members voice is heard.
That¹s my opinion
anyway
Andrew
On 5/13/14,
8:45 AM, "Nii Narku Quaynor" <a href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank"><quaynor@ghana.com></a>
wrote:
>Just curious.
How different is this multi hat different from holding >proxy? I recall Afrinic has a limit on proxy?
>
>> On May
13, 2014, at 0:20, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
wrote:
>>
>>
What I find rather absurd is one person having multiple votes. What >>kind of election is that? It should be one voice one vote and that >>should mean one individual one vote.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ademola Osindero
>> CEO/Consulting Director,
>> Lopworks Limited
>>
>>
<a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a>
>> Original
Message
>> From: Owen DeLong
>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:14 PM
>> To: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>; <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a> >> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting >> >> I¹m sorry, but I think that is absurd. All it accomplishes is to >>force organizations to scramble trying to find additional individuals >>to cast their votes. It serves absolutely no useful purpose whatsoever, IMHO.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>> On May
12, 2014, at 3:03 PM, <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com" target="_blank">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>
wrote:
>>>
>>> One individual one vote,
irrespective of how many member
>>>organizations you are affiliated
to. Once an individual's identity is
>>>associated with a member, then the
person will cast vote for only
>>>that member and no other member.
>>>
>>>
Regards,
>>> Ademola Osindero
>>> CEO/Consulting Director,
>>> Lopworks Limited
>>>
>>>
<a href="http://www.lopworks.com" target="_blank">www.lopworks.com</a>
>>> Original
Message
>>> From: Owen DeLong
>>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 10:58
PM
>>> To: <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>
>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: [rpd] Discussion
about e-voting
>>>
>>>>> 2. Going forward IMHO I
think we should discouraged multiple
>>>>>voting by an individual for
different members since the
>>>>>probability of voting
differently is low and this only goes to >>>>>increase votes across one side only. A "polished form" of election >>>>>rigging. I know some will argue one can still like gin with >>>>>different credentials and vote one sided but then :) >>>>> >>>>> Could someone from the community enlighten me on this please.
>>>
>>> To
echo what Mark said in slightly less confrontational languageŠ >>> >>> One member, one vote. Each member should be able to choose who casts >>>the vote on behalf of that member.
I see nothing wrong with members
>>>who wish to have the same person
represent their interests doing so.
>>>It is not election rigging if 25
different member organizations all
>>>select the same person to cast
votes on their behalf. Presumably each
>>>member organization is capable of
choosing a voting representative
>>>who will vote in a manner
consistent with their desires and
>>>interests. Likely if they were each
forced to choose a different
>>>person in order to avoid being
disenfranchised as you propose, you
>>>would simply see a larger group of
voters who are potentially less
>>>informed and less motivated. I do
not think that would be beneficial
>>>to AfriNIC, to the community, nor
to the members.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that this is not in
any way equivalent to stuffing
>>>the ballot box or rigging the
election. If those organizations all
>>>pick the same person to represent
them, either they trust that person
>>>to share their ideals/needs/wants
or they trust that person to vote
>>>as they instruct on their behalf.
In either case, that person is
>>>legitimately exercising the vote
designated by the member
>>>organization on behalf of each
member organization.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> rpd mailing list
>>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a>
>>
>>
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</div></div><span class=""><font color="#888888"><pre cols="72">--
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div>
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