<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Why don't universities simply apply as usual and justify the network plan and receive 10:1 if that's what the university needs<br><br>On Feb 4, 2013, at 14:36, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hello Maina<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Maina Noah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mainanoa@gmail.com" target="_blank">mainanoa@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Andrew,<div><br></div><div>we stick with 1:2 minimum and 1:3 max for the proposal and that should be ok.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span></div></blockquote><div>
Does it hurt if its 1:5 max and your institution for instance can ask for 1:2? don't you think we are arguing on the least of the issues....is there anything wrong with that?<br><br>Regards <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div></div><div>Maina</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On 4 February 2013 17:05, Andrew Alston <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alston.networks@gmail.com" target="_blank">alston.networks@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Maina,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Ok, so even if I agree with you at 2 devices per student (I don’t but let’s assume I do), 1:2 still does not then cater for staff, it does not cater for university infrastructure, it does not cater for lab pc’s, it does no cater for wifi infrastructure and a host of other things.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So, even if we say a notebook + phone per student, we STILL need at MINIMUM 1:3 (as per original proposal).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Furthermore, the current proposal does NOT set the minimum at 1:5, it states that 1:5 is the maximum you can get with minimal justification, after that you need further justification. So, if an institution believes they only need 1:2 or 1:3 they CAN still specify that, they can specify a 1:0.5 if they really wanted to (it would be crazy, but it could be done). All the proposal does is set a maximum figure before lots of documentation is required. This means that a university that DOES need 1:5 is still covered, a university that needs less can apply for less, the option is open to do that. What’s the problem?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Andrew<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Maina Noah [mailto:<a href="mailto:mainanoa@gmail.com" target="_blank">mainanoa@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 04, 2013 4:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> Andrew Alston<br><b>Cc:</b> Jackson Muthili; rpd<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 4 February 2013 14:49, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:alston.networks@gmail.com" target="_blank">alston.networks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Maina,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Andrew,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Firstly, almost all modern devices that use 3G automatically switch to Wifi if they are in range and it is accessible. Try it, take a 3G phone and move in range of a wifi hotspot the phone is authenticated to. It switches, move outta range, it switches back to 3G.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Fine that is a technology feature.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Secondly, You and Jackson are making an argument on affordability of devices, let me say though, that the argument below is counter-intuitive to this. You are saying, let those that have them continue to use their provider networks and pay the costs associated with 3G. This means that the rich students who can afford the data at mobile rates (and it’s not cheap), have a far better experience than those who simply have the devices and cannot afford the 3G/HSDPA/LTE/Whatever commercial data rates. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The point is simple and lets not confuse each other and its best we kept this in the context of students. SO, NOT ALL STUDENTS CAN AFFORD TO HAVE 5 DEVICES, not now and not ever on this continent. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The issue of affordability is known and i agree with you on that but like i said my argument stems from the fact that your statistics do not reflect the reality on the ground across this continent. Even the ones you share about Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Egypt, were all collective internet growth stats per country not per University in each country.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So, by NOT providing sufficient addressing and accessibility for these devices, you are effectively advocating for an increase in the digital divide. Once again, the poor get screwed while the rich continue to get a better experience and hence, a better education. This I have a major problem with.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">No we are not advocating for any digital divide. We are saying that your ratio of 1:5 does not reflect the reality on the ground which is why i indicated that from my experience 1:2 is ok and will still do for the poor students because they will most definitely afford a laptop and a phone.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Andrew</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Noah<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Maina Noah [mailto:<a href="mailto:mainanoa@gmail.com" target="_blank">mainanoa@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 04, 2013 1:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Andrew Alston<br><b>Cc:</b> Jackson Muthili; rpd<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Andrew, <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">thanks for this informative research and stats. Do you realize that all those stats are based on Telecom operators networks and IP infra etc. So the question is, why the 1:5 ratio if according to all the stats you have indicated, the same has already been taken care off by the Telecoms who offer the 3G internet services on those devices thus they are already pre-assigned with an IP address.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Maina<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 4 February 2013 13:25, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:alston.networks@gmail.com" target="_blank">alston.networks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Jackson,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You assume that the ONLY thing you are addressing here are student devices, what about the University infrastructure itself? The servers, the staff pc’s, the staff devices, the networking equipment, the wifi ap’s themselves, the list is endless.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now some stats to say that it is not only South Africa using mobile connectivity, here are some interesting figures.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">An interesting stat, as of 2011 there were 951 MILLION active sim cards in Africa, a figure *<b>WAY</b>* exceeding urban population, indicating multiple devices in the mobile space on that base alone. By end of 2012, that is predicted to be 1.06 billion, and 1.144 billion by end of 2013 (Stats I could get were from 2011, so can only give the predictions for 2012/2013 and not the actual figures).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Furthermore, Africa and Middle east are predicted to have a compound annual growth rate in mobile connectivity of 129% annually, with a global market share in mobile connectivity rising from 12% as of 2010 to 20% by end of 2015, with the mobile market in Africa representing over 6 billion dollars in 2011 and rising to 12 billion dollars in 2014. (Stats courtesy of Informa Telecoms and Media). </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now, let’s look at some stats from the Mobile Youth Report 2011 (Note, these are the youth population alone, and not the combined population). In Nigeria there are 45 million youth using mobile data, South Africa is at 27 million, Egypt is at close to 30 million, all three nations have significantly more mobile youth than the UK (currently sitting at around 20 million). Looking at the Opera Mini State of Mobile web report 2011, we see a growth of mobile connectivity in Kenya at 82.8%, in Egypt at 190.9%, in South Africa at 67.7%, in Nigeria at 131.9% in the space of a year. Between December 2010 and March 2011, there was a 36% growth in Nigeria alone of smartphone page impressions. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If we look at mobile traffic growth in terms of traffic (2010 report), the top country in terms of growth is Sudan, with a 2466% increase in traffic. This is followed by Morocco (414%), Tunisia (369%), Ghana (287%), Egypt (174%) and Nigeria (133%). </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bottom line, your assertion that the use of mobile devices is restricted to rich South African students seems to be rather… disputed by facts.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Multiple device mobile connectivity is here, it’s a reality, we need to wake up to that fact and cater for it, and this is PARTICULARLY evident in the youth category that represent the student base of the academic institutions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Andrew</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Maina Noah<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 04, 2013 11:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jackson Muthili<br><b>Cc:</b> rpd<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 4 February 2013 11:05, Jackson Muthili <<a href="mailto:jacksonmuthi@gmail.com" target="_blank">jacksonmuthi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+1<br><br>Andrew Aston assumption apply to student from very rich family only in<br>SA. Even in SA student from 80% of economy not considered rich can not<br>afford 5 IP device.<br><br>This policy does not represent reality of university outside SA.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jackson, Indeed, which is why the community as a whole needs to be more realistic with the reality on the ground at various universities hence my argument which i based sorely on real facts from one Top university here and i have note visited the other small university's yet of which the situation could even be more negative. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
I dont support it.<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> I would support a 1:2 ratio as opposed to 1:5. <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jack<br><br>On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Maina Noah <<a href="mailto:mainanoa@gmail.com" target="_blank">mainanoa@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>><br>><br>> On 3 February 2013 16:58, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>>> Hello People<br>>><br>> Hi Seun,<br>><br>>><br>>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank">el@lisse.na</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>>>> I don't have issues with my iPhone, iPad, iPad mini, Mac Book Air, iMac,<br>>>> eeePC, Ubunto server(s) or BlackBerry,<br>>><br>>><br>><br>> Right, this students either studies and works and has a good paycheck or his<br>
> parents are doing very very well.<br>><br>>><br>>> Here is a sample of one person's gears, just to emphasis that 1:5 is being<br>>> modest ;)<br>>><br>><br>> I have been quietly thinking through the communities 1:5 argument, but one<br>
> little but very important factor is being left out. The fact that NOT EVERY<br>> STUDENT CAN AFFORD TO BUT ALL THOSE TOYS. I went to University of Dar es<br>> salaam last week to just study the environment and internet usage at the<br>
> campus as my curiosity stemmed from this very 1:5 argument, and guess what,<br>> most students can;t even afford to own Laptops. Funny thing is the % of<br>> students who actually have the Steve Jobs toys are like 10% because they can<br>
> even afford them. The Private students only get School Fees from their<br>> parents and those on Government loans can hardly afford a personal laptop.<br>> Most of them share laptops haaah. On the issue of phones, there are no<br>
> campus wide wireless networks and thus most students with smartphones are<br>> using 3G services from the Telecom companies.<br>><br>> This is a case for one specific HEI in Tanzania and now how about the rest<br>
> of the continents and in other countries. Let us be realistic and stop<br>> assuming and basing our arguments on some few specific institutions and rich<br>> students.<br>><br>>><br>>> Cheers!<br>
><br>><br>> My 2 cents,<br>><br>> Maina<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> rpd mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
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