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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Hi Owen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Like me, you also seem to be supposing that the different fees for End Users and LIRs result from considerations of their different abilities to bear cost and of the desirability of certain cross-subsidisations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Duncan Martin</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sat 2012/07/21 09:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Duncan Martin<BR><B>Cc:</B> Sunday Folayan; Guy Antony Halse; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Definitions of LIR versus End User<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That depends on ones perspective.
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<DIV>As a general (not absolute) rule, LIRs are (mostly) ISPs making money essentially reselling the registration services that they receive from the RIRs. They tend to get much larger allocations than the assignments given to end users.</DIV>
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<DIV>I would support a review of the fee structure, but would advise not making it significantly harder for end users to obtain direct assignments. I would support a fee structure that allowed for-profit business LIRs to somewhat subsidize non-profit LIRs such as universities, public access networks, etc.</DIV>
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<DIV>Owen</DIV>
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<DIV>On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Duncan Martin wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>I support Sunday's call for a review of AfriNIC's fee structures.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>The present huge differences between the fees charged to End-Users and those charged to LIRs show that AfriNIC's fees are not based on cost-recovery, as would befit a non-profit entity, but, evidently, on perceptions of the prices and implicit cross-subsidisations that different market segments will tolerate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>If definitions of End Users and LIRs and distinctions between End Users and LIRs are indeed required in AfriNIC's fee structures, should these not be justified in terms of AfriNIC's obligations and responsibility as a RIR to ensure/promote good Internet numbering practice in the Region?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Duncan Martin</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</A> on behalf of Sunday Folayan<BR><B>Sent:</B> Fri 2012/07/20 09:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Guy Antony Halse<BR><B>Cc:</B> AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Definitions of LIR versus End User<BR></FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>
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<P>All of this exercise at definitions and ambiguity discoveries points to a total warp in the afrinic fee structure. That is what needs equitable review, not definitions.</P>
<P>My 1 micro-lira.</P>
<P>SF.</P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 13 Jul 2012 08:13, "Guy Antony Halse" <<A href="mailto:G.halse@ru.ac.za">G.halse@ru.ac.za</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>Hi<BR>
<P><FONT color=#500050><BR>On Wed 2012-07-11 (20:12), Seun Ojedeji wrote:<BR>> end-user:<BR>> An end-user is an organization receivi...</FONT></P>When coupled with the definition of LIR:<BR>
<P><FONT color=#500050><BR>> > A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from<BR>> > an RIR and primaril...</FONT></P>this creates exactly the sort of ambiguity I referred to previously.<BR><BR>There exists the potential for an organisation that neither uses its IP<BR>assignments *exclusively* for its internal use, nor *primarily* assigns<BR>address space to end-users. (Note the emphasised words.) From the<BR>discussions, most universities come to mind.<BR><BR>Ergo (at least some) universities are neither end-users nor LIRs.<BR><BR>Which is why I think that end-user should be !(LIR || RIR).<BR>
<P><FONT color=#500050><BR>- Guy<BR>-- <BR>Systems Manager, IT Division, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa<BR>Email: G.Halse...</FONT></P>
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