<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Guy Antony Halse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:G.halse@ru.ac.za" target="_blank">G.halse@ru.ac.za</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi<br>this creates exactly the sort of ambiguity I referred to previously.<br>
<br>
There exists the potential for an organisation that neither uses its IP<br>
assignments *exclusively* for its internal use,</blockquote><div><br>Such organization will then be referred to as an LIR <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
nor *primarily* assigns<br>
address space to end-users.</blockquote><div> </div><div>I would think if an organization does not primarily assign IP to an end user, then they be referred to as end-users.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Your previous two statements contradict each other.</div><div><br></div><div>A University, for example, primarily assigns addresses to its classrooms, laboratories, and other IT infrastructure within the campus. It may also assign addresses to customers such as students and/or faculty living in on-campus or other institutional housing.</div><div><br></div><div>I would agree that such an institution should be considered an LIR for policy purposes. I do not agree that since they do not primarily assign IP to end-users that they are an end-user. I would say that any institution which assigns Internet Number Resources to downstream customer facilities is, in fact, an LIR regardless of whether they themselves consume the majority of their addresses or not.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">Ergo (at least some) universities are neither end-users nor LIRs.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>Yes i agree there can be some universities that provide services beyond their organization and thereby issuing IP address within their block. Nevertheless i think this would apply to a few in Africa, as most university don't even have enough bandwidth for their own use. :-)<br>
<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>First, I think it may be more than you think from some of the earlier conversation in this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Second, hopefully that is a temporary problem which will be solved in the coming years and not a permanent situation.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">
Which is why I think that end-user should be !(LIR || RIR). = end-user ;-)<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote><div><br></div>I would rather see LIR = (!End User || RIR) since I believe end-user is easier to define:</div><div><br></div><div>An end-user is a network which does not allocate or assign addresses to any network not entirely under said organizations direct control.</div><div><br></div><div>e.g.:</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A traditional ISP is not an end-user because it does not control the network or networking equipment within the residences or businesses it serves.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A University which provides direct access to end-hosts in institutional housing but does not allow residents to supply or use their own routers, switches, or other network equipment which connects additional end-hosts and does not assign or allocate IP addresses to any other external entity is an end-user.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A University which provides network connectivity to institutional housing, but allows residents to manage their own internal networks within said institutional housing or otherwise assigns or allocates IP addresses to any other external entity is not an end-user.</div><div><br></div><div>From the earlier discussions, it seems to me that Africa contains universities in both the end-user and the LIR category. It is not clear from Andrew's rants whether or not his particular institution should be treated as an end-user.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></body></html>