<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Is there some reason that you believe the plain english definition of "end user" does not apply or is insufficient?<div><br></div><div>It is common in policy and law for terms which do not require specific meaning outside of or more specific than their plain language meanings to be left out of the policy-specific definitions.</div><div><br></div><div>For example, there is no definition for the term "bridge" in the California Vehicle Code, however there is a section of the code which prohibits parking on a bridge. I do not know of any history of someone complaining that said law is invalid because the term bridge is not defined within the vehicle code.</div><div><br></div><div>Common definitions of the term end user include:</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The ultimate consumer of a product, especially the one for whom the product has been designed.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The person, organization, or nation that will be the ultimate recipient of goods or services.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The ultimate destination of information that is being transferred within a system or network.</div><div><br></div><div>It seems to me that any one of those, but most especially number 2 would be perfectly valid for interpretation of the policies in question.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there some reason that you believe those definitions are inadequate?</div><div><br></div><div>If not, then there is no problem and this is much ado about nothing.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 11, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi All,<div><br></div><div>During the discussions week before last in the context of the a university application, it became pretty clear fairly quickly that the community did not believe that the policy that was proposed was necessary. Hence, since that policy was not FORMALLY proposed through the system, it is being withdrawn on the list and we will not be continuing with that proposal.</div><div><br></div><div>That being said, there was indication from a few members of the community that it was perhaps time to clean up the definitions of LIR versus EU, and make sure these definitions were clear enough to avoid confusion.</div><div><br></div><div>I've since been doing some digging to see what the current definitions in AfriNIC policy actually state, and here is what I found:</div><div><br></div><div>Section 5.3 of AFPUB-2005-v4-001 says:</div><div><br></div><div>5.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; ">A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of AfriNIC.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; ">This policy lacks a definition in its definition section for an end user.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; "><br></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px;">In policy </span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px; ">AFPUB-2006-GEN-001 we have a policy for the assignment of space to the end user, but again, there is no fixed definition of what an end user is.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px; "><br></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">I couldn't find any other definition of an End User in current policy, but its possible that I missed something.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">Now this creates a problem, we have a policy line in AFPUB-2005-v4-001 that refers to something undefined, and an entire policy that refers to assignment of space to something undefined.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">Hence, we need to create this definition to avoid future confusion, either in separate policy, or by modification of existent policies to include this definition. </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">Once we create the end user definition though, it should automatically clean up the LIR definition, since the LIR definition will become a lot clearer with the context created.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">So, I want to ask the following questions to the community:</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">A.) Do we want to simply modify existent policies to include the definition or do we want a separate policy that contains a list of definitions. There are advantages to both approaches, the largest I see in the latter approach is that future policies would then have set definitions they could refer to without direct inclusion.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">B.) Once we have defined the End User definition, is there any other need to attempt to modify the LIR definition</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">C.) What are the general community opinions about how an end user should be defined, are there any suggestions for this definition. (I have a few, but I would rather hear the communities voice on this before making a proposal)</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">Thoughts and comments?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;">Andrew Alston</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'Lucida Grande', Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 16px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 3px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 3px;"><br></span></font></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>