Hey Andrew,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Andrew Alston <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alston.networks@gmail.com" target="_blank">alston.networks@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I have to wonder here if this is actually the right debate now that I sit and think through it very carefully.<div>As stated, we received a very clear email earlier before that policy was submitted stating that we had been classified as an LIR, including a ticket number, sent from hostmaster, and we reacted based on what we assumed was therefore official communication of position. If this was NOT the position, I am EXTREMELY glad of that fact and I look forward to hearing what the actual position is so that we can continue this debate.</div>
<div><br></div></blockquote><div>As it has been stated by the Afrinic official its obvious that the position which they MAY have sent to you earlier as you stated is not currently final. Inview of this, as rightly stated by other respondent; it is just best to wait for their final position before making any further move. So call the former position V1.0 beta release and look forward to the stable release :-)<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>In the mean time, as stated at the start of this email, perhaps its time for us to start documenting the definition of an LIR. And I would propose the following wording:</div>
<div><br></div><div>LIR: An entity receiving resources from a regional internet registry and assigning such resources to other entities with a separate legal existence. <br>
<br></div></blockquote><div>For me i think this will be a good and logical definition to consider. Picking from the definition provided by ARIN<br><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<h4 style="font-weight:normal">2.4. Local Internet Registry
(LIR)</h4><h4><span style="font-weight:normal">A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that primarily assigns
address space to the users of the network services that it
provides. LIRs are generally Internet Service Providers (ISPs), whose customers are primarily
end users and possibly other ISPs. ref: <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two4">https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two4</a></span><br></h4></blockquote><div>Although i wonder why wikipedia which references the ARIN definition defines it as <br>
</div><blockquote><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"> A local Internet registry (LIR) is an organization that has been allocated a block of IP addresses by a regional Internet registry (RIR), and that assigns most parts of this block to its own customers.[1] Most LIRs are Internet service providers, enterprises, or <b>academic institutions</b>. Membership in an RIR is required to become an LIR.<br>
</blockquote><div><br><div style="text-align:left">perhaps the academic institution mentioned here can be categorized as those that i refereed to as Institutional RENs (i.e an institution connecting other institutions with clearly different legal formation/establishment). In any case wikipedia can always be updated :-)<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>This would clarify the issue immensely, since it means that departments and faculties within the same organization are considered as part of the main organization since they have no separate legal existence.</div>
<div><br></div></blockquote><div>Yeah i think so....and its just very straight forward analysis. Don't think anyone will question that?<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div></div><div>If the community is prepared to adopt this definition, then perhaps any such policy as the one proposed would become unnecessary.</div><div><br></div></blockquote><div>hmmm....Andrew like i said please lets take one step at a time, Afrinic will respond to your request accordingly. Although i think the proposal to update/create a definition for LIR could be treated as a different application entirely!<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>Any thoughts on this?</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br>
</div></font></span></blockquote><div>Done! with my 2 Cents worth.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
</div><div>
Andrew</div></font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Guy Antony Halse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:G.halse@ru.ac.za" target="_blank">G.halse@ru.ac.za</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi<br>
<div><br>
On Thu 2012-06-28 (22:49), Arthur Carindal wrote:<br>
> I advocate that you wait patiently until we finish working on your request<br>
> prior to debate on AFRINIC's position. As per the process AFRNIC supports<br>
> all of its decisions with policy when responding officially to a member's<br>
> request.<br>
<br>
</div>I think that this is a sensible suggestion and a reasonable request.<br>
<br>
However, this matter is of interest to a number of South African public<br>
higher educational institutions (and quite likely those in other African<br>
countries too). Universities, by their very nature, tend to be comparably<br>
large organisations and run very large networks. They're also considerably<br>
different to traditional businesses, be they ISPs or otherwise, and their<br>
governance structures vary widely from country to country. Thus anything<br>
that starts drawing a distinction between LIR and end-entity based on the<br>
size of the requested address space or perceived structure of the academic<br>
environment will be of interest and concern to most universities.<br>
<br>
For this reason, can I ask that AfriNIC (or, failing that, the institution<br>
concerned) make the final decision on this request, together with the<br>
reasoning behind it, available. (The request is already mostly public.)<br>
Doing that would go a long way to establishing whether or not this debate is<br>
even necessary.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
- Guy<br>
--<br>
Systems Manager, IT Division, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:G.Halse@ru.ac.za" target="_blank">G.Halse@ru.ac.za</a> Web: <a href="http://mombe.org/" target="_blank">http://mombe.org/</a> IRC: <a href="mailto:rm-rf@irc.atrum.org" target="_blank">rm-rf@irc.atrum.org</a><br>
*** ANSI Standard Disclaimer *** J.A.P.H<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
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