<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I would actually consider the M$/Nortel deal more of an abomination than a precedent<div>as it currently stands.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with your second paragraph and that is part of why I oppose this policy and am</div><div>disappointed by the efforts to derail a better statement of intent in favor of keeping</div><div>AfriNIC resources for use within the AfriNIC service region.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><div><div>On May 9, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Walubengo J wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="position: static; z-index: auto; "><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Thnx Owen, McTIm, Andrew et al.<br><br>Am richly educated by your insights. The overall point is really not to copy and paste ARIN procedure/policy or whatever they had to do with legacy, non-legacy and or "traded" space. The major point is that some precedent was set in the M$, Nortel deal and as AfriNIC we need to start thinking about its implications.<br><br>My take is that due to the faster depletion of v4 space in the developed economies, we are going to see more tactical moves by companies both local and foreign seeking to sell, acquire and speculate with v4 addresses.<br><br>Indeed I sense the feeling that "Legacy" space should not be up for discussion and/pr policy discourse given that it was acquired in the pre-RIR dispensation. However, I fear that a highly liberalized, free-for all behaviour with regard to Legacy space
will set a precedent that will eventually be adopted for non-legacy space.<br><br>As such, I would be willing to support a policy discussion around this point. Unfortunately I dont have the specifics as yet and further to that, I see my concerns partly addressed (wrongly or otherwise) in some of the proposed policy discussions scheduled for Dar.<br><br>I think I will very much keep observing the developments as they unfold locally (AfriNIC) and abroad (other RIRs).<br><br>regards,<br>walu.<br><br><br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 5/10/11, Owen DeLong <i><<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] RE:AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources - of Legacy Space<br>To: "Walubengo J" <<a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com">jwalu@yahoo.com</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>,
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a><br>Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 3:52 AM<br><br><div id="yiv1804444726"><div><br></div>Walu,<div><br></div><div>Your characterization is not entirely correct. I have some knowledge of what happened, but, it</div><div>is limited. I will stick to what I know factually and leave out my opinions for now...</div><div><br></div><div>1.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>M$ and Nortel had come to an agreement in Bankruptcy court.</div><div>2.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Nortel was apparently selling M$ addresses that they had obtained through the</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>acquisition of other entities, though they had never formalized these acquisitions</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>with ARIN.</div><div>3.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>ARIN approved the transfer to M$ under NRPM section 8.3 and I believe the process</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>of doing so is still on-going.</div><div><br></div><div>4.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>According to John Curran, M$ did provide a needs-basis justification for the</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>addresses they are receiving in this process.</div><div><br></div><div>5.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>M$ is signing a modified Legacy Registration Services Agreement with ARIN.</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><br></span></div><div>6.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>The exact nature of the agreement is unknown outside of ARIN
staff, legal, and</div><div><span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>M$.</div><div><br></div><div>7.<span class="yiv1804444726Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>The court allowed M$ to keep the exact address ranges secret.</div><div><br></div><div>The policy was not put in place special for M$ and has been on the books for some</div><div>time. The policy was originally approved through the emergency PDP within ARIN,</div><div>but, did not get implemented until it had been returned to the regular policy development</div><div>process, so, it was not, in fact, rushed through.</div><div><br></div><div>For reference, the relevant ARIN draft policies were 2008-2, 2008-15, and 2009-1.</div><div><br></div><div>All of the policies and their progress are published on the ARIN web site. <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.arin.net/">http://www.arin.net</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>This transfer
policy is not legacy-specific.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On May 9, 2011, at 4:17 AM, Walubengo J wrote:</div><br class="yiv1804444726Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><table style="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">@Mark,<br><br>M$ bought the legacy space with a lot of $$$. What I liked is that ARIN quickly got M$ to subsequently put this space under their Service Contracts. I think they fast-fowarded a Policy around this (anyone with specific/actual url on this?)<br><br>Am just wondering maybe AfriNIC should discuss a similar policy since we do have quite some legacy space particular in SA which according to contemporary understanding AfriNIC cannot control its "departure"/"exchange".<br><br>walu. <br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 5/8/11, Mark Elkins <i><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" href="x-msg://12/mc/compose?to=mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Mark Elkins <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" href="x-msg://12/mc/compose?to=mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>Subject: RE: [AfriNIC-rpd] AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources<br>To:
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="x-msg://12/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 9:12 PM<br><br><div class="yiv1804444726plainMail">Oh? - why do you want to wait until they are completely out rather than<br>just in their final /8 - which restricts LIR's to a single /22 (or<br>something similar)? Most Soft landing policies have something like that.<br><br>...except ARIN who does not have a soft landing policy (just lots of<br>historical legacy space to re-sell....)<br><br>I'd be happy allowing anyone that has a need to have these addresses -<br>at a price of course!<br><br>(What did Microsoft recently pay per IPv4 address?) <br><br>On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 19:30 +0200, Andrew Alston wrote:<br>> Hi There,<br>> <br>> Not until such time as APNIC is completely out of address space, if I<br>> recall they are currently in their last /8, but they are still<br>> allocating
from within that. <br>> <br>> Once they state "We cannot allocate ANY more" this would start to apply<br>> <br>>
Thanks<br>> <br>> Andrew<br>> <br>> <br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From: <a rel="nofollow">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a>] On<br>> > Behalf Of SM<br>> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:54 PM<br>> > To: <a rel="nofollow">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> > Subject: [AfriNIC-rpd] AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of<br>> > Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources<br>> > <br>> > Hi,<br>> > <br>> > I have a few comments about AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 (Limited Out<br>> > of Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources). In Section 3:<br>> > <br>> > "Upon the depletion of IPv4 resources within any of the
RIPE/<br>> APNIC/<br>> > LACNIC/ ARIN regions, AfriNIC will begin to allow foreign entities<br>> > to take membership of AfriNIC and under such foreign membership<br>> > obtain allocations of space, made available from a single /8 out<br>> > of AfriNIC's IP space holding."<br>> > <br>> > As APNIC is in Stage Three of IPv4 exhaustion in the Asia Pacific,<br>> > would this proposal be applicable for that region?<br>> > <br>> > Section 4 and 5 contains the same text. The Revision History also<br>> > contains that text.<br>> > <br>> > Regards,<br>> > -sm<br>> > <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > rpd mailing list<br>> > <a rel="nofollow">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> > <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> rpd mailing list<br>> <a rel="nofollow">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br><br>-- <br> . . ___. .__ Posix Systems - Sth Africa<br> /| /| / /__ <a rel="nofollow">mje@posix.co.za</a> - Mark J Elkins, Cisco CCIE<br>/ |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS Tel: +27 12 807 0590 Cell: +27 82 601 0496<br><br></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><div class="yiv1804444726plainMail">_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="x-msg://12/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>