<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Legacy space was not granted as a free-for-all. Legacy space was never transferable except<div>through acquisition of the functional network structures that the addresses were originally issued</div><div>to support.</div><div><br></div><div>Any transfer of legacy resources should require that the recipient sign an agreement with the</div><div>applicable RIR and the transfer combined with the agreement should void their legacy status</div><div>in my opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><div><div>On May 9, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I would be opposed to any policy that placed any restrictions on true legacy space (that space that was assigned prior to the existence of RIR’s).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I am not at all convinced that such a policy could actually be legally enforced anyway, since the space was allocated outside of the auspicious of the RIR structures, and therefore I believe the RIR’s do not have the authority to impose restrictions on the use/sale/transfer of space allocated like this. That would be retroactive without the agreement of the assignees of such space. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Andrew Alston<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">TENET – Chief Technology Officer<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 4pt; "><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:rpd-bounces@afrinic.net]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Walubengo J<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, May 09, 2011 1:17 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mje@posix.co.za</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[AfriNIC-rpd] RE:AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of RegionAllocation of IPv4 Resources - of Legacy Space<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">@Mark,<br><br>M$ bought the legacy space with a lot of $$$. What I liked is that ARIN quickly got M$ to subsequently put this space under their Service Contracts. I think they fast-fowarded a Policy around this (anyone with specific/actual url on this?)<br><br>Am just wondering maybe AfriNIC should discuss a similar policy since we do have quite some legacy space particular in SA which according to contemporary understanding AfriNIC cannot control its "departure"/"exchange".<br><br>walu. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Sun, 5/8/11, Mark Elkins<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mje@posix.co.za</a>></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>Subject: RE: [AfriNIC-rpd] AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources<br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 9:12 PM<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Oh? - why do you want to wait until they are completely out rather than<br>just in their final /8 - which restricts LIR's to a single /22 (or<br>something similar)? Most Soft landing policies have something like that.<br><br>...except ARIN who does not have a soft landing policy (just lots of<br>historical legacy space to re-sell....)<br><br>I'd be happy allowing anyone that has a need to have these addresses -<br>at a price of course!<br><br>(What did Microsoft recently pay per IPv4 address?)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 19:30 +0200, Andrew Alston wrote:<br>> Hi There,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Not until such time as APNIC is completely out of address space, if I<br>> recall they are currently in their last /8, but they are still<br>> allocating from within that.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Once they state "We cannot allocate ANY more" this would start to apply<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Thanks<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Andrew<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd-bounces@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd-bounces@afrinic.net</a>] On<br>> > Behalf Of SM<br>> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:54 PM<br>> > To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> > Subject: [AfriNIC-rpd] AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 - Limited Out of<br>> > Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Hi,<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > I have a few comments about AFPUB-2011-v4-003-draft-02 (Limited Out<br>> > of Region Allocation of IPv4 Resources). In Section 3:<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > "Upon the depletion of IPv4 resources within any of the RIPE/<br>> APNIC/<br>> > LACNIC/ ARIN regions, AfriNIC will begin to allow foreign entities<br>> > to take membership of AfriNIC and under such foreign membership<br>> > obtain allocations of space, made available from a single /8 out<br>> > of AfriNIC's IP space holding."<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > As APNIC is in Stage Three of IPv4 exhaustion in the Asia Pacific,<br>> > would this proposal be applicable for that region?<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Section 4 and 5 contains the same text. The Revision History also<br>> > contains that text.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Regards,<br>> > -sm<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > rpd mailing list<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> rpd mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> . . ___. .__ Posix Systems - Sth Africa<br>/| /| / /__ <a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=mje@posix.co.za" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mje@posix.co.za</a> - Mark J Elkins, Cisco CCIE<br>/ |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS Tel: +27 12 807 0590 Cell: +27 82 601 0496<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a href="x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>rpd mailing list<br><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>