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[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM

Fernando Frediani fhfrediani at
Tue Jun 29 12:59:59 UTC 2021


Well said Frank


Em 6/29/2021 7:08 AM, Frank Habicht escreveu:

> Hi,


> On 29/06/2021 12:01, Owen DeLong via RPD wrote:

>> nectivity customers or use out of the region as something "normal and

>> acceptable".


>> Regardless of who does and does not benefit, the reality is that short

>> of an actual government with the ability to enforce its rules using

>> guns and prisons, people who can make a profit are going to do what

>> they are going to do.

> I need to break this down.

> I'm working in my $dayjob for one of those companies that are after

> $profit. What this company _did_ is subscribe to the methods and rules

> of a Mauritius company called AfriNIC, in order to get Internet

> Numbering Resources. And I think many of the AfriNIC members formally

> subscribed to these rules. (And the rules are subject to change

> according to PDP)


> These INR are provided to members per need and justification. Relatively

> recently additional rules came into force that limited each allocation

> to maximum /22 - this is how rules can change.


> INR are delegated to members that need them themselves, and AfriNIC

> calls these members "End-User" members. They are also delegated to

> members that provide internet access to respective customers, and

> AfriNIC calls these members "LIR" members.


> I believe in all justifications for IPv4, LIR members request/require

> the addresses to address customers, or servers, or VMs that get

> connectivity services from the LIR member. And there is no problem with

> that. LIR is in the business of making profit, providing connectivity,

> hosting servers, services, needs IPs, gets IPs.


> There is a big difference to the case where an LIR member

> - has IPv4 address space,

> - is not using it themselves,

> - not for connectivity (or hosting) customers

> and has the IPv4 space used by "customers" that are only getting the

> IPv4 space as a service - sold or leased.


> Is that the purpose for which the IPv4 space was obtained and justified?


> There are "rules" that say an LIR should notify when use of an IP block

> changes.

> I see a big difference between changes *within an LIR* and changes to

> *use the IP space outside the AfriNIC member LIR*.

> With the first, I consider it generally accepted that justification remains.

> With the latter, I believe that the *LIR that subscribed to AfriNIC

> rules* has shown to no longer have the justification for these IPs for

> connectivity and hosting, including "PA" customers.


> The reason for doing the latter is obviously $profit, and yes - some "

> are going to do what they are going to do ".

> And what this community allows them to get away with.


> To be Frank: I simply don't believe that

> AS212552    "BitCommand" in Armenia gets IP connectivity services from

> ... you know who.


> In other continents / RIRs the IPv4 space is finished. Noone has any

> hope of justifying any with the RIR. Some have more than they need -

> give or sell it to others that have "a need" and the market can probably

> regulate that.


> But AfriNIC still has and is distributing IPv4 - should it do so by

> "whoever pays most" or "everyone according to their need [upto a /22

> ;-)]". Has it given IPv4 resources to members according to their

> respective (perceived) needs???


> Wasn't one of the rules that the LIR was to use the IPs for the

> connectivity (or hosting) services?


> Are the rules still applicable?



> bit more below...


>> I’m not particularly happy about this reality, but I do recognize that

>> it is, in fact, reality and I’m not in favor of giving RIRs guns or

>> the ability to incarcerate people. Contracts only get you so far and

>> clever people can always find ways to comply with the letter of a

>> contract while circumventing the other party's intent if they want to

>> try hard enough.


>> So no, these are not “nice words”, they are the recognition of

>> unpleasant and inconvenient truths that like it or not, we are faced

>> with new realities, economic, technical, and legal.

> Is one of these realities that an LIR got resources from AfriNIC for

> providing connectivity (or hosting) services, and now these are no

> longer in place?



>> In many countries legal frameworks the lack of a transfer policy

>> allowing registrants to monetize the transfer of their registrations

>> could be considered either restraint of trade or an

>> anti-trust/anti-competitive matter.

> the fact is that these numbers should be unique and centrally managed.

> These anti-trust lawyers can send a better proposal for managing them.


> The question is whether "according to need" or "according to whoever

> offers more $$".


> Should I be allowed to "buy" a /16 from AfriNIC, put it in a safe, sell

> it 3 years later for $profit ???

> Is that the purpose for which AfriNIC got the /8's from IANA?



> Frank


> PS: all or most questions are serious. answers will help.



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