[rpd] balancing operators vs other participants in the PDP - was Re: Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

[Noah]

The ideology "You have the freedom to speak, but we can't guarantee your
freedom after speech" has failed since the beginning of time.

We should never compromise freedom. Never even if the unintended
consequences includes being fired.

Be fired for what you believe in and in most cases, its for the greater
good of the community because who are we without the community.

So anonymity should not be encouraged. We must stand tall as men and women
of conscience.

Noah

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021, 13:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD, <rpd at afrinic.net>
wrote:


> (subject changed)

>

>

>

> Hi Paschal,

>

>

>

> Let me try to explain what I’m meaning here.

>

>

>

> Let’s asume I’m working for an operator. I’m anonymous at gmail.com.

>

>

>

> My employeer ask me to post an opinion following their internal

> policy/views/thoughs, and my email is jordi at operator.com. I can even say

> that this is the corporate view, etc.

>

>

>

> I “personally” disagree with that, but I need to do so to not be fired.

>

>

>

> I will post as jordi at operator.com what I’m instructed to.

>

>

>

> I will also post my **real personal opinion** as anymous at gmail.com. I can

> even say here “I work for an operator but I can’t disclose other details,

> as my opinions contradict my employeer ones and I could be fired if I

> contradict them”.

>

>

>

> Nobody needs to know that anonynous at gmail.com and jordi at operator.com are

> the same person, but at least, in the list the chairs can see that there is

> some bussiness perspective in some of the responses and that even operators

> think in a different way when they are free to speak.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 8/6/21 11:31, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribió:

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

> Hi Mike,

>

>

>

> Fully agree on this:

>

>

>

> Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding

> alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is

> reasonable that the objector either:

>

>

>

> ·         identifies the *actual* network they operate; or

>

> ·         acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical

> network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too);

> or

>

> ·         admits that they are a paid shill for someone else.

>

>

>

>

>

> It will be awesome to justify objections and simplify the work of the

> authors in improving the policy or responding to the objections, and for

> the chairs to evaluate all the points.

>

>

>

> I will also say that if somene is participanting with an anonymous email,

> because it has a conflict of interest with his employeer, to state so

> (without giving employee deatails). That will help to balance if some

> opinions look contradictory, to understand why.

>

> Well I think that there is a moral or ethical justification to this but

> one may argue that it is still not enshrined in the current process or

> community definitions so a full disclosure cannot be enforced as a criteria

> for participation. So I think there is no need to go down that road and

> burn unnecessary calories.

>

>

>

> Saludos,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 8/6/21 10:41, "Mike Silber" <silber.mike at gmail.com> escribió:

>

>

>

> Hi Jordi

>

>

>

> On 8 Jun 2021, at 09:44, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> While I understand your point, I think that we need to agree that

> sometimes, non-operators, also provide points of view that help to improve

> policies.

>

>

>

> I do agree. However we need to accept that those contributions are largely

> on legal / policy issues.

>

>

>

> I am a legal / policy person and the views expressed on this policy

> regarding the RIR system and the legal and policy issues are without

> foundation. As I am a legal / policy person I don’t presume to comment on

> network operations.

>

>

>

> Also, there may be policies where the discussion will not be well balanced

> if only operators participate, because are not so closely related to

> operation, and instead to how to distribute resources that belong to the

> overall community.

>

>

>

> Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding

> alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is

> reasonable that the objector either:

>

>

>

> ·         identifies the *actual* network they operate; or

>

> ·         acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical

> network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too);

> or

>

> ·         admits that they are a paid shill for someone else.

>

>

>

> Regards

>

>

>

> Mike

>

>

> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list

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>

>

> **********************************************

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> http://www.theipv6company.com

> The IPv6 Company

>

> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

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> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> communication and delete it.

>

>

>

> --

> Kind regards,

>

> Paschal.

>

> **********************************************

> IPv4 is over

> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> http://www.theipv6company.com

> The IPv6 Company

>

> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> communication and delete it.

>

> _______________________________________________

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>

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