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[rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 175, Issue 179
Sunday Ayuba
sundayayuba8 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 25 10:12:16 UTC 2021
Dear all,
I strongly believe that it is more reasonable to await the decision of the
appeal committee before further discussions. That's my option anyways.
Best regards,
Sunday Ayuba.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 6:11 PM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: APPEAL AGAINST THE CONFIRMATION OF CONSENSUS DECLARED BY
> THE POLICY LIAISON TEAM AND THE BOARD ON THE SELECTION OF PDWG
> CO-CHAIRS (Tom Ochang)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 18:10:26 +0100
> From: Tom Ochang <dontommy24 at gmail.com>
> To: Taiwo Oye <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>
> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] APPEAL AGAINST THE CONFIRMATION OF CONSENSUS
> DECLARED BY THE POLICY LIAISON TEAM AND THE BOARD ON THE SELECTION
> OF
> PDWG CO-CHAIRS
> Message-ID:
> <CANJxAP1x99uApZULu50p3tpchmhGTveab=
> 34BnjFt4T1NU5VhA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I can clearly see that some new members lack knowledge of The code of
> conduct, and some old members have turned to e-bullies and have also
> negated the code of conduct to join the younger members in mudslinging.
> An appeal has been made let us wait for the AC to work and five their
> comment on the subject matter. Thank you.
>
> Tom Ochang
> Nigeria
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, 15:43 Taiwo Oye, <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ?
> > AFRNIC never runs short of drama.
> >
> > - I think the appeal should be left with the committee than being debated
> > here.
> >
> > - I think a few people who think they are old members of the community
> > have a way of talking in an intimidating manner to scare off new members
> of
> > the community. They might be new but they are not ?daft?.
> >
> > Noah can you kindly tune it down a bit. Sometimes it comes off as
> > bullying.
> >
> > - I think some new members have stepped out of line by their response to
> > the perceived attack on them. My advice is to keep to the african
> tradition
> > of respecting your elders. And try to tap from the relevant experience
> they
> > have to offer.
> >
> > - I think since an appeal has been presented against the chairs, the
> > cochairs need to stop acting in that capacity until the appeal is
> > concluded.
> > This was made clear and stated severally during the last appeal.
> >
> > I might be wrong in my opinions. But that is what ?I think?
> >
> > Sisoko, can you kindly pass the popcorn.
> >
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Taiwo
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2021, at 13:50, Murungi Daniel via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?Dear Emem,
> >
> >
> > Your arrogant and egotistical replies are proof of how childish and daft
> > you really are. Worse, you even lack the wisdom to realize that you are
> > displaying it full-on in public.
> >
> > News flash - there are people who will always be clever than you, know
> > more than you and be better than you in many aspects. Sadly you don?t
> seem
> > to have learned this life lesson. My advice to you would be to learn from
> > them.
> >
> > Regarding your appeal, it is a waste of everybody?s time but since it has
> > been lodged, am hopeful the appeal committee will see through the
> frivolous
> > attempts by you and those with like feathers to sow chaos and subvert the
> > proper working of the PDP.
> >
> > Check your self man - you seem to have the potential to be a solid
> > contributor to this community. Do not let your pride, self importance and
> > misguided attacks get in the way of that.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Murungi Daniel
> >
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Emem William <dwizard65 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Jaco,
> >
> > I will advise that you and your misguided cohorts refrain from
> > unnecessary rantings that is capable of heating up the mailing list.
> >
> > I submitted a request to the appeal committee; every rational fellow
> > should be able to wait patiently for the committee's decision without
> > trying to further complicate the issues on ground.
> >
> > One important thing that I sincerely want you to know is: *I have never
> > made the mistake of arguing with persons for who's opinions I have no
> > regards.*
> >
> > Have a nice weekend!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Emem William.
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 08:34 Jaco Kroon <jaco at uls.co.za> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Emem,
> >>
> >> Please keep your derogatory for yourself. Your other email was in my
> >> opinion also extremely out of line.
> >>
> >> I suggest you read the code of conduct and keep to that.
> >>
> >> My father has a saying he uses frequently, "the more things change, the
> >> more they stay the same", combined with an Afrikaans saying (I'm sure
> there
> >> are other variants in other languages) about "met grysheid kom wysheid"
> or
> >> directly translated "with grey (hair) comes wisdom" which is to say
> "with
> >> age comes wisdom".
> >>
> >> I agree the world is modern, and we need to adapt. But trust me, I
> >> consider myself a young person (mid 30s), tried and tested is good. The
> >> saying "nuwe besems vee skoon" or "new brooms sweep clean" certainly
> holds
> >> water (value), but the broom had to be invented first. Do not forget
> the
> >> journey that was taken to get where we are. Discount that and you're
> >> throwing the baby (good, new) out with the bath water (dirty, no longer
> >> usable).
> >>
> >> Please refer to my previous email, and if you can't deduce from that why
> >> consensus is the technically more correct and better approach compared
> to
> >> democracy _in_our_environment_, please re-read it a few more times, then
> >> sleep on it. I'm not so sure democracy is the father of
> >> multistakeholderism as you say, but I get why you're saying it - it's
> what
> >> we're all being indoctrinated with from a young age, and up to a point
> >> (meaning until you really sit and think about it, hard) it makes
> sense. I
> >> don't need you to agree with me, but I would ask that you try to
> understand
> >> and show some respect to your peers that came before you. I'm also very
> >> new (5 years) in this community, and I can tell you this: Those that
> have
> >> come before us certainly have some large shoes and broad shoulders.
> Show
> >> them the respect they deserve, please. They've been around the block a
> few
> >> times and better than any of us understand the pitfalls, and they have
> the
> >> experience to be able to provide guidance and vision. To build. To
> >> strengthen. So keep to your ideals, but learn from them.
> >>
> >> Now, instead of discussing philosophical politics and differences (not
> to
> >> say it's not important to understand these), can we please get back to
> >> discussing policy making? We are after all supposed to be the *Policy*
> >> *D*evelopment *W*orking *G*roup.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >> Jaco
> >>
> >> On 2021/04/23 21:08, Emem William wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Eddy,
> >>
> >> I would also like to suggest that you organise a webiner for some old
> >> folks on how to handle things in a multistakeholder environment. I see
> the
> >> need to enlighten them on the fact that a 'market' has many entrance.
> More
> >> importantly you need to educate them that there are new and better ways
> of
> >> doing things.
> >>
> >> They should not continue to live in thier old shadows because we are in
> a
> >> modern world where all animals are now becoming equal. They need not
> >> exhibit thier ignorance and think they can continue to dominate the
> others
> >> and label them 'new'.
> >>
> >> More importantly, you need to teach them that in a land where there are
> >> rules, the rules has to be followed; not an attempt circumvent the
> rules,
> >> by old folks to cheat the younger ones all in the name of "*being old*".
> >> It's not by age anymore. Probably Mark should suggest '*All animals
> >> are equal, Face or No face'.*
> >> This, I believe will restore the long lost sanity in AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Emem William
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 17:34 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Eddy and Chair
> >>>
> >>> Can AfriNIC perhaps through the Stakeholder Engagement department
> >>> increase its efforts on running quartely webinars for new members of
> our
> >>> community. I have been reading emails in recent weeks from folks who I
> >>> believe to be new members of the PDWG who could do with some capacity
> >>> building.
> >>>
> >>> This will go on to reduce the level of ignorance among the new members
> >>> of the community especially around the Policy Development Process.
> >>>
> >>> Some sort of orientation program similar to the one AfriNIC provides to
> >>> its fellows each year who attended physical meetings but instead run it
> >>> remotely via webinars.
> >>>
> >>> In my humble opinion.
> >>>
> >>> Noah
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 23 Apr 2021, 16:26 Fernando Frediani, <fhfrediani at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello Jaco
> >>>> Thanks for this excellent and necessary lesson.
> >>>>
> >>>> Every time I see the word democracy trying to be used in PDWG I feel
> >>>> the same lack of understanding by some.
> >>>> Some need to understand that just by a certain number of people
> voicing
> >>>> their wish for something isn't just enough to make something happen as
> >>>> things are not decided by a majority of voices.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fernando
> >>>> On 23/04/2021 09:56, Jaco Kroon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Okoye,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think you're confusing the concept of democracy and a consensus
> based
> >>>> approach.
> >>>>
> >>>> In a democracy, the majority (or largest individual sub group) get
> what
> >>>> they want, irrespective of whether it's right or wrong. The premise
> behind
> >>>> a democracy is two-fold: those that we appointed will action in the
> form
> >>>> of an autocracy that which they have pitched in their run-up (failure
> to do
> >>>> so generally leads to unrest, and even if they follow exactly that if
> it's
> >>>> not to the betterment of the larger group will at least be met with
> >>>> resistance by the minority), and will stick to exactly that and not
> become
> >>>> power hungry, and the larger believe is that the majority knows best
> and
> >>>> are right in their believes. Of course this is an
> >>>> idealogical/philosophical statement, for which there are many other
> >>>> wordings, the base premise is: the majority rules, right or wrong. A
> >>>> democracy only works if the elected leaders of the majority has the
> best
> >>>> interests of community as a whole at heart, otherwise it becomes an
> >>>> oppression of minority by the majority.
> >>>>
> >>>> In a consensus based approach, it's more strict, the majority cannot
> >>>> simply enforce their arbitrary will. But at the same time the
> minority can
> >>>> get their way. It's about addressing problems in such a way that the
> right
> >>>> thing will happen, irrespective of emotional influence and state of
> mind.
> >>>> In some cases we can delegate to a democratic based decision (ie,
> vote) *if
> >>>> we so choose*. As was the original proposal until I filed two
> motions:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. That we select two of the three eligible candididates (as per the
> >>>> criteria that the group have conceded to which eliminated the other
> three
> >>>> candidates, and AK based on the fact that he was the previously
> recalled
> >>>> chair). AK subsequently pulled out leaving us with only two eligible
> >>>> candidates, and based on no valid objections that was raised, they
> were
> >>>> then on the basis of consensus elected.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. That the appointments are made for one and two years respectively,
> >>>> but there were objections against this, so as I've got it this was
> >>>> accepted, but this could still potentially be changed at the PPM such
> that
> >>>> one term will end during the PPM and the other will run for a further
> year.
> >>>>
> >>>> Against the first item there were (as far as I could tell) no valid
> >>>> objections, just emotional outbursts, against the latter there were
> some
> >>>> "this is a variation of the accepted CPM" which could be deemed to be
> >>>> valid, and I also conceded that I've got no objection if this
> decision is
> >>>> postponed to the PPM, but it does make things more difficult for the
> newly
> >>>> elected chairs since their position going forward is unclear.
> >>>>
> >>>> My request is thus in short to not confuse a democracy with a
> consensus
> >>>> system(much more strict than a democracy since one person that raises
> a
> >>>> *valid* objection against a proposal can stop the thousand, in
> theory).
> >>>> But in the same sense, the thousand cannot stop the one unless they
> can
> >>>> raise a valid objection.
> >>>>
> >>>> The PDWG is not a democracy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kind Regards,
> >>>> Jaco
> >>>> On 2021/04/23 14:12, Okoye Somtochukwu wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Community,
> >>>>
> >>>> In my opinion, I believe we should have a chance to appeal and contest
> >>>> the boards' decisions on the selection of co-chairs. A democratic
> >>>> government does not function when citizens are deprived of their
> right to
> >>>> free speech, protests tec. in the same vein, we should also have a
> say in
> >>>> appealing against the decision made by the board against the
> co-chairs.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, The appeal against the board on the selection of the co-chairs
> is
> >>>> valid. Although it is only rational that we look into this issue and
> try to
> >>>> assess the situation as it is. This is because, although the board has
> >>>> acted in carrying out its duties and that of the co-chairs, I don't
> feel it
> >>>> is right for the board to have a consensus regarding the selection of
> the
> >>>> co-chairs.
> >>>>
> >>>> In all our doings, we must treat each other's duties and positions
> with
> >>>> the utmost respect and do our best to move the community forward.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 23, 2021, at 1:57, Paschal Ochang <pascosoft at gmail.com>
> >>>> <pascosoft at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?Hello all.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's very simple. Has an appeal been lunched ? The answer is yes. So
> >>>> let the Appeal Committee do their job. It's simple.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, April 22, 2021, Haruna Umar Adoga <hartek66 at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If we decide to proceed with the confirmation of the newly ?selected?
> >>>>> Co-chairs, which some say were chosen based on a ?consensus? by the
> PDWG,
> >>>>> it will be a step in the wrong direction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I personally do not subscribe to the idea of wasting the community?s
> >>>>> time on frivolous issues but an appeal has been made against the
> >>>>> confirmation of the Co-chairs and it needs to be addressed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We cannot and should not keep supporting this narrative as PDWG
> >>>>> members, that whenever someone or a group of persons question an
> >>>>> act/decision that needs clarification, we tend to push things under
> the
> >>>>> carpet intentionally by throwing all sorts of tantrums rather than
> facing
> >>>>> the issues in an upright manner.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Haruna.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 9:30 AM Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In the Spirit of Law, what is not authorised, is forbidden. Don't
> >>>>>> fool people here please. An other waist of time to the Community .
> The
> >>>>>> Co-chairs selection is over. Now we invite Co-chairs to take the
> place and
> >>>>>> start working, in order to avoid such kind of waist of time.
> Please, let
> >>>>>> move forward.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Arnaud
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Le jeu. 22 avr. 2021 ? 02:38, lucilla fornaro <
> >>>>>> lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As we can all see, it is true that the CPM (3.5) openly mentions
> the
> >>>>>>> appeal against the co-chairs, but it doesn?t forbid other forms of
> appeals.
> >>>>>>> Furthermore, the appeal reports a serious matter that should be
> properly
> >>>>>>> investigated. This is the only way to go through it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In particular, I believe that the declaration of the consensus by
> >>>>>>> the Board of Directors goes beyond their authority.
> >>>>>>> Therefore, I support this appeal.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lucilla
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Il giorno mer 21 apr 2021 alle ore 14:18 Emem William <
> >>>>>>> dwizard65 at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Dear Appeal Committee,*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Please check the attachment for our appeal.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Subject : Appeal against the confirmation of consensus declared
> by
> >>>>>>>> the Policy Liaison Team and the Board on the selection of PDWG
> Co-chairs*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dear Appeal Committee,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am appealing against the confirmation of consensus declared by
> >>>>>>>> the AFRINIC team and the Board on the selection of PDWG
> Co-chairs, made on
> >>>>>>>> the RPD mailing list, on April 9th and April 11th.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013018.html)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013052.html)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I consider that the actions of the Board of Directors to
> >>>>>>>> self-declare consensus over the PDWG matter in selecting the new
> co-chairs
> >>>>>>>> is done outside of their scope of power and prerogatives.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Date of the appeal :* April 19th, 2021
> >>>>>>>> *Date of the decision made by the Policy Liaison Team*
> >>>>>>>> (1) 3rd April 2021
> >>>>>>>> (2) 9th April 2021
> >>>>>>>> *Date of the decision made by the Board of Directors*
> >>>>>>>> 11th April 2021
> >>>>>>>> *f) Reference to an announcement of decision which is being
> >>>>>>>> appealed*
> >>>>>>>> (1) 26th March 2021, Eligibility criteria imposed by Policy
> >>>>>>>> Liaison Team
> >>>>>>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012768.html)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (2) 9th April 2021, Policy Liaison Team announced consensus is
> >>>>>>>> achieved
> >>>>>>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013018.html)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (3) 11th April 2021, Board Chair declared consensus
> >>>>>>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013052.html)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Name and email address of complainant.*
> >>>>>>>> Emem William
> >>>>>>>> dwizard65 at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Names of complainants.*
> >>>>>>>> 1. Olamide Andu (olamideandu at gmail.com)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2. Yusuf Abdurahman Adebisi (adebc007 at gmail.com)
> >>>>>>>> 3. Emem Ekpo William (dwizard65 at gmail.com)
> >>>>>>>> 4. Sunday Ayuba (sundayayuba8 at gmail.com)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The following appeal addresses the ?fake consensus on the
> selection
> >>>>>>>> of the co-chairs? declaration, which according to the CPM, cannot
> be done
> >>>>>>>> by anyone else besides the chair. Yes In this situation we agreed
> that
> >>>>>>>> AFRINIC team should serve as secretariat but this team went ahead
> to
> >>>>>>>> selectively implement decisions even when there was no
> consensus. The
> >>>>>>>> board?s interference with the matter signifies that the bottom up
> process
> >>>>>>>> no longer exists. Therefore, this appeal should serve the Appeal
> Committee
> >>>>>>>> in taking into account a very important point, which is the fact
> that the
> >>>>>>>> board has no right in declaring consensus.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Based on the Board?s action of declaring consensus on the
> >>>>>>>> selection of the co-chairs, which is done outside of their
> prerogatives, it
> >>>>>>>> is safe to conclude that the declaration of consensus is illegal
> as it is
> >>>>>>>> not within the prescribed power and prerogatives of the Board of
> Directors.
> >>>>>>>> The Board of Directors should have referred to and comply with the
> >>>>>>>> stipulated terms of the AFRINIC?s constitution and the CPM and
> ensure that
> >>>>>>>> any action that is taken by the Board of Directors is done
> consistently and
> >>>>>>>> in compliance with the stipulated terms of the AFRINIC?s
> Constitution and
> >>>>>>>> the CPM, which was not the case. The declaration of the consensus
> by the
> >>>>>>>> Board of Directors shows that the Board of Directors have acted
> above and
> >>>>>>>> beyond their prescribed power and prerogatives.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for the list of requirements and qualifications imposed by the
> >>>>>>>> Policy Liaison Team, It is vital to note that they were never
> stipulated
> >>>>>>>> under the CPM. By simply adding on a list of requirement and
> qualification
> >>>>>>>> proves that the Policy Liaison Team have acted arbitrarily and
> with blatant
> >>>>>>>> disregard to the terms and procedures which are clearly
> stipulated under
> >>>>>>>> the CPM.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Based on the above, I urge the Appeal committee to look into this
> >>>>>>>> serious matter and resolve this appeal by standing with what is
> right.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>> *Emem William*.
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>>>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Paschal.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RPD mailing listRPD at afrinic.nethttps://
> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RPD mailing listRPD at afrinic.nethttps://
> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> RPD mailing list
> >>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> RPD mailing listRPD at afrinic.nethttps://
> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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