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[rpd] Reversal of Consensus on Resource Transfer Policy
Frank Habicht
geier at geier.ne.tz
Mon Oct 19 10:06:03 UTC 2020
Hi,
On 19/10/2020 12:23, Ekaterina Kalugina wrote:
> The first fact is that making changes to the policy during the last call
> is not prohibited by the CPM. And it is in the spirit of the law to make
> the necessary changes during the last call.
I disagree (as stated before) and I look forward to your arguments
supporting this assertion.
Because "necessary" might mean extensive, which I say is no permitted by
the spirit of the law. You stating the opposite will not convince me
otherwise.
...
> Thirdly, the fact that the policy addresses "almost all" concerns does
> not disqualify it from being on the last call. The policy is moved onto
> the last call when a rough consensus is achieved. And rough consensus
> does not imply that everyone must agree.
But it means that all valid concerns should have been addressed.
> It means that there should be a
> sense of general agreement as per the determination of the chairs. Which
> we had.
>
> Then the policy is moved to the last call where it is then edited so
> that a proper consensus could be achieved.
the consensus has to be there already, and editorial changes (agreed
upon) can be done. not bigger changes. Trust me.
> Since this have proved to be
> tenuous journey, it only makes sense that the chairs have extended the
> last call to make sure that all of the issues were properly addressed.
Has anybody done that, until now?
> And this is what we should focus on: let us try to find a compromise on
> this issue that can satisfy all of us as much as possible. Let us
> discuss the policy in question, raise all the concerns that still
> remain and try to find the best solution for the region
I believe some were raised and not yet addressed.
Frank
>
> Best,
>
> Ekaterina
>
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020, 09:28 Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net
> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
> I use Gmail, because i don't want to clog my official mailbox with
> irrelevances. However, I can't be label suspect.
>
> If you do not know the person, and is of interest to you then make
> effort to reach out to the person. Note, there maybe ghost IDs.
>
> On 19/10/2020 7:58 am, Mark Elkins wrote:
>>
>> Mike, I agree with your summary. I'd also add that people who use
>> gmail addresses also add a little suspicion unless I actually know
>> them.
>>
>> On 2020/10/19 08:36, Mike Silber wrote:
>>> Amazing that my mail to “Lamiaa” is answered by “Lucilla” (with a
>>> quick response by “Gabi”).
>>>
>>> This is a response to the list, as I see little point in
>>> responding to an identity whose provenance and identity is still
>>> uncertain.
>>>
>>> I relish different opinions. For example - my friend Noah and I
>>> disagree on many things. However:
>>>
>>> - I have met him;
>>> - I have been on calls with him;
>>> - I know what networks he operates;
>>> - I know his technical background and experience.
>>>
>>> So when we disagree, I have to afford him the respect he deserves
>>> because I have data. I either understand his perspective (even
>>> though I think it may be wrong) or at least I understand his
>>> motivations.
>>>
>>> Through it all - he has worked to earn the respect of all of us
>>> by his commitment to the community and the process.
>>>
>>> However, with you and your echo chamber and despite the cutesy
>>> introductions when I first raised my concern - I have never met
>>> you, never been on a call with you, don’t know what network you
>>> operate or your technical expertise. I don’t have any inclination
>>> of your perspective or motivation.
>>>
>>> As such, it seems that your (collective) motivation is to
>>> manipulate the process towards a particular objective.
>>>
>>> This is not the first time the mailing list has been manipulated
>>> and I am sure it won’t be the last. Some people I call (or used
>>> to call) friends have used sock puppets to manipulate process and
>>> spew hatred.
>>>
>>> I am calling it out here because I think we have a problem that
>>> we have just swept under the rug before - we allow identities
>>> without confirmation to participate.
>>>
>>> For example - ICANN working groups have developed a “statement of
>>> interest” requirement for participation that tries to filter sock
>>> puppets and force disclosure of interest.
>>>
>>> I think that the situation in the PDP has become so toxic that a
>>> similar requirement may be necessary.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 04:58, lucilla fornaro
>>> <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Mike,
>>>
>>> Let me understand your point of view.
>>> So, agreeing with someone else means belonging to a “puppet
>>> echo chamber” (which is an insult itself!)?
>>>
>>> You talk about respect and objectiveness when you are
>>> insinuating the false and lacking respect for anyone who has
>>> a different opinion from you.
>>>
>>> This is not a private talk at a coffee shop, you cannot cut
>>> out from the conversation people who disagree with you. You
>>> are accusing some members of pushing a proposal you disagree
>>> with and according to you, this means we belong to a kind of
>>> strange conspiracy gang. If I had a lot of free time I may
>>> end up thinking you are doing exactly the same by rejecting it.
>>>
>>> Luckily, this is not a cult, this Afrinic and surprise
>>> surprise, Afrinic is a welcoming open community where
>>> DIFFERENT OPINIONS are not only accepted but encouraged.
>>>
>>> Members have been consistently asking for more time and once
>>> they’ve received it they KEPT COMPLAINING because they now
>>> want something else. So my question is, what game are you
>>> playing? Because if there is something suspicious here, it
>>> comes from you and those who are equally confused about what
>>> they want. At least, my ideas are explicit.
>>>
>>> I think there are enough childish quarrels, if you are really
>>> genuinely interested in Afrinic it is time to accept that
>>> someone may disagree with you.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Lucilla
>>>
>>> Il giorno dom 18 ott 2020 alle ore 20:47 Mike Silber
>>> <silber.mike at gmail.com <mailto:silber.mike at gmail.com>> ha
>>> scritto:
>>>
>>> Lamiaa
>>>
>>> Thanks for confirming (yet again) to the list members
>>> that you and several others seem to serve as an echo
>>> chamber for each other and for little other purpose -
>>> other than an attempt to manipulate the PDP.
>>>
>>> Objectively there was nothing offensive or constituting a
>>> personal attack in what Fernando said and attempting to
>>> amplify that lie is offensive to all of us who engage in
>>> robust discussion on this list.
>>>
>>> As for your opinions on the appeal, frankly they are
>>> irrelevant. Hopefully the appeal committee will be
>>> objective and not manipulated by your echo chamber.
>>>
>>> While I appreciate the co-chairs extension of the last
>>> call period, as others have pointed out, the extension
>>> does not substantively change the decision against which
>>> the appeal has been lodged.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sitting back and waiting for the flames from the sock
>>> puppet echo chamber
>>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 12:35, Lamiaa Chnayti
>>> <lamiaachnayti at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lamiaachnayti at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Fernando,
>>>
>>> First of all, I would like to report to the chairs
>>> your improper behaviour that consists of personally
>>> attacking and offending Lucilla. This should be taken
>>> seriously and shouldn’t go unnoticed so as to
>>> maintain a fair and sensible discussion on the list.
>>>
>>> I would also like to point out that now that the
>>> chairs have amended their decision, the appeal has
>>> become invalid.
>>>
>>> Please start showing a little respect for what the
>>> chairs are doing. Everything they voluntarily do is
>>> for the sake of this community.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Lamiaa
>>>
>>> Le dim. 18 oct. 2020 à 00:20, Fernando Frediani
>>> <fhfrediani at gmail.com <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>>
>>> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Do not deceive yourself. There is an appeal
>>> ongoing before any possible ratification.
>>>
>>> Fernando
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 20:12 lucilla fornaro,
>>> <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, what I meant is that we’ve been
>>> discussing for weeks, the end of the last
>>> call has been already announced.
>>> Co-chairs shouldn’t make any changes to that
>>> decision. The policy shall now move to
>>> ratification.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Lucilla
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Da:* dc at darwincosta.com
>>> <mailto:dc at darwincosta.com>
>>> <dc at darwincosta.com <mailto:dc at darwincosta.com>>
>>> *Inviato:* domenica, ottobre 18, 2020 2:49 AM
>>> *A:* lucilla fornaro
>>> *Cc:* ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE; rpd List
>>> *Oggetto:* Re: [rpd] Reversal of Consensus on
>>> Resource Transfer Policy
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 17 Oct 2020, at 19:36, lucilla fornaro
>>>> <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Co-chair, dear community,
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with this extension of one week.
>>>> I don’t see how this further week can do any
>>>> good to a discussion that has already
>>>> reached its purpose.
>>>> It is clear that the community members have
>>>> had exhaustive time to discuss the policy.
>>>>
>>>> The end of the last call for this policy has
>>>> already been declared and we should keep
>>>> moving forward from that.
>>> I guess you meant send it back to discussion?
>>> I have previously asked the Co-chair to share
>>> with the community facts & figures on how
>>> this proposal have reached consensus... Until
>>> now, we have not seen nothing on this
>>> regards...
>>>
>>> Luckily there is an appeal submitted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Lucilla
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Darwin-.
>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Da:* ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE
>>>> <oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng
>>>> <mailto:oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng>>
>>>> *Inviato:* domenica, ottobre 18, 2020 1:03 AM
>>>> *A:* rpd List
>>>> *Oggetto:* [rpd] Reversal of Consensus on
>>>> Resource Transfer Policy
>>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> Despite our belief that this policy has
>>>> covered almost all of the concerns raised
>>>> especially the major objections, we would
>>>> like to give the community more time to
>>>> discern after considering the community's
>>>> feedback on the consensus declared on the
>>>> Resource Transfer Polic.
>>>>
>>>> We, the co-chairs, have changed our decision
>>>> and opt to extend the last call for one more
>>>> week for prudence's sake.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Co-Chair
>>>> PDWG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Website <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng>, Weekly
>>>> Bulletin
>>>> <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin> UGPortal
>>>> <http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>
>>>> PGPortal <https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>
>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Lamiaa CHNAYTI
>>>
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>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel: +27.826010496
>> <tel:+27826010496>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:
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>>
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>>
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