[rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx

[Fernando Frediani]

A couple of information for those who are scary about "the pool be empty 
shortly".

When LACNIC transitioned from Phase 2 to Phase 3 of the exhaustion 
phases which is very similar to what just happened to AfriNic Phase 2, 
it took exactly *3 years and 6 months* for it to be completely empty.
Consider that LACNIC has a much higher demand than AfriNic and during 
most of these 3 years it survived without a Inter-RIR policy that was 
discussed for quiet a while before it reached consensus, plus the time 
it took for it to be implemented by staff which happened just recently 
in middle of this year.

Good or not organizations survived, found their way to work with this 
new scenario e now there is a proper and well discussed proposal that 
work well for everybody and allow in and out transfer from ALL other 
RIRs. And by the way legacy resources lose its status like is expected.
And by the way, there is absolutely no "fight" with legacy resource 
holders, not at all. They don't care what will happen when they sell 
their resources on sold. Whoever is buying are not really much 
interested in this status, but in acquiring them for their usage and 
that's it.

AfriNic can take some more time, specially in the current uncertainty 
scenario to get a proper and better discussed proposal that will in fact 
be reciprocal to all other RIRs and benefit the region to keep going 
after the pool is completely empty which still takes some time.

Fernando

On 25/09/2020 22:08, lucilla fornaro wrote:

> Dear all,

>

> Accepting this policy implies that AFRINIC will develop a way to get 

> even more resources to satisfy and push the demand of the developing 

> market.

> We often talked about smoother business (why the community is so 

> scared about this word?) operations, the policy does not facilitate 

> any fraud. All resources are allocated and transferred in the base of 

> a proven need. It is an expensive process, and it is reasonable to 

> think that no one would operate a fraud that causes loss instead of 

> benefits.

>

> Yes, shortly the pool will be empty, but the policy proposes a way to 

> fight it and promote access to further resources before it's too late.

>

> regards,

>

> Lucilla

>

> Il giorno sab 26 set 2020 alle ore 09:49 Ibeanusi Elvis 

> <ibeanusielvis at gmail.com <mailto:ibeanusielvis at gmail.com>> ha scritto:

>

>     Dear Marcus, Dear Community,

>

>     I do not concur with your analogy and accusations on the proposal

>     or policy written  by Anthony Ikechukwu Ubah and Taiwo Oyewande

>     called “Resource Transfer Policy” as being a hindrance to the

>     smooth operation of business, is entirely false. The major

>     intention of this policy is to support and boost businesses i

>     Africa not to hinder the operation of business.

>

>     Likewise, the policy is not based on a fake problem of the African

>     region. This is baseless accusation and a wrong

>     self-interpretation of what factual intentions of the Resource

>     Transfer Policy, Anthony and Taiwo should be appreciated for

>     pointing out this issue.

>

>     On the other hand, "/Basically, the Resource Transfer Policy is

>     intended to take Internet Resources on one region to the other. We

>     all know that Africa is at its developing stage and needs more

>     internet resources to support its developmental process. Accepting

>     this policy means that the little resources left in our region

>     will be taken away, especially when we don’t have the mechanism in

>     place to enforce the auditing of the use of the allocated

>     resources.//”/

>

>     /The purpose of this policy is to support a “TWO-WAY INTER-RIR

>     POLICY” which implies that AFRINIC can receive and transfer

>     resources. With the exhaustion of the IPv4, the adoption of this

>     policy will do a greater good to the African continent as it

>     supports the circulation of resources into and out of all the RIRs /

>     /

>     /

>     /Best, /

>     /Elvis/

>

>>     On Sep 26, 2020, at 02:24, Taiwo Oyewande

>>     <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com <mailto:taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>>

>>     wrote:

>>

>>     Hi all,

>>

>>     Discussing a problem statement that will not be implemented in

>>     the CPM is not really taking us forward.

>>

>>     There is an obvious war against the co chairs for doing a job

>>     that the community mandated them to do by the status of their

>>     election. The co-chairs discussed each points raised with the

>>     various authors and tried to see if all the points were duly

>>     addressed before making their decisions.

>>

>>     I saw a false and misleading statement about the cochairs trying

>>     to get the authors of 2 of the 3 related policies against the

>>     authors of the 3rd policy. Is this what members of this working

>>     group has turned to?

>>     Trying to create a bad name for another member using scenarios

>>     that never occurred. I think that is the height of desperation

>>     and such defamation of character should not be encouraged on this

>>     list

>>

>>     Taiwo

>>

>>>     On 25 Sep 2020, at 14:17, Marcus K. G. Adomey

>>>     <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:

>>>

>>>     

>>>     Dear all,

>>>

>>>     The Policy “Resource Transfer Policy”

>>>     (AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT01) proposed by Anthony Ikechukwu Ubah

>>>     and Taiwo Oyewande is based on a fake problem for our region.

>>>

>>>

>>>     (1) “The current policy fails to support a two-way Inter-RIR

>>>     policy” – And so what? This was an intra-RIR transfer policy,

>>>     not meant to be Inter-RIR

>>>

>>>     (2) “there by hindering smooth business operation”

>>>

>>>     Can the authors of the policy show how the current situation is

>>>     “hindering smooth business operation?”

>>>

>>>     Further, they should tell us what they mean by “smooth business

>>>     operation”.

>>>

>>>     (3) “development and growth in the region”

>>>

>>>     Can the authors of the policy prove that the current status is

>>>     hindering “development and growth in the region”?

>>>

>>>     It is clear that the authors of the policy have used

>>>     unsubstantiated claims to buttress the need for this policy.

>>>

>>>     Basically, the Resource Transfer Policy is intended to take

>>>     Internet Resources on one region to the other. We all know that

>>>     Africa is at its developing stage and needs more internet

>>>     resources to support its developmental process. Accepting this

>>>     policy means that the little resources left in our region will

>>>     be taken away, especially when we don’t have the mechanism in

>>>     place to enforce the auditing of the use of the allocated resources.

>>>

>>>     Moreover, any unmanaged inter-RIR transfer policy will weaken

>>>     the development of the Internet in the region as we have no

>>>     control over this global market which never played in our favor.

>>>     It may also affect AFRINIC operations.

>>>

>>>     Recent findings discussed on this list show how transferred

>>>     resources are being used. The global community is yet to discuss

>>>     the impact on transfer. I am more concerned for our region.

>>>

>>>     Reconsider your decision and let us discuss the best approach to

>>>     engage the Region into the global resources transfer world.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>     Marcus

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>     *From:* Murungi Daniel <dmurungi at wia.co.tz

>>>     <mailto:dmurungi at wia.co.tz>>

>>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:59 PM

>>>     *To:* rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net

>>>     <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>

>>>     *Subject:* Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx

>>>     Hello,

>>>

>>>     Can the authors of the resource transfer policy in the last call

>>>     explain, which problem is being addressed?

>>>

>>>     The problem statement is awkward to say the least. The issue

>>>     with the problem statement was raised in Luanda and during the

>>>     virtual AIS. How can we can adopt a proposal when the

>>>     problem statement is out of scope of the PDP?

>>>

>>>     ——-

>>>     1. Summary of the problem being addressed by this proposal

>>>     The current policy fails to support a two-way Inter-RIR policy,

>>>     thereby hindering smooth business operation, development, and

>>>     growth in the region. This proposal aims to establish an

>>>     efficient and business-friendly mechanism to allow a number of

>>>     resources to be transferred from/to other regions. This proposal

>>>     outlines a model in which AFRINIC can freely transfer number

>>>     resources to/from other regions, i.e. RIPE NCC, APNIC, ARIN and

>>>     LACNIC. This includes both IPv4 addresses and AS numbers.

>>>     ——-

>>>

>>>

>>>     Regards,

>>>

>>>     Murungi Daniel

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>     On Sep 23, 2020, at 10:39 PM, Fernando Frediani

>>>>     <fhfrediani at gmail.com <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>     Hello

>>>>

>>>>     There is no much I can do other than state my *opposition to

>>>>     this proposal* to advance and reach any consensus mainly

>>>>     because 5.7.4.3 has been inverted from what was originally in

>>>>     the proposal and only changed at last minute due to some

>>>>     comments in the PPM going straight to last call which didn't

>>>>     give opportunity to the community re-evaluate this major change

>>>>     and if it's suitable to the region or not.

>>>>

>>>>     Co-Chairs cannot advance this proposal to rough consensus the

>>>>     way it is and I urge and ask them again to bring it back to

>>>>     discussion to find out a resolution to these opened issues.

>>>>     Multiple people raised substantial concerns about it already.

>>>>     There is no way it can be considered 'rough consensus'.

>>>>

>>>>     I also understand there may be a hurry to get a Inter-RIR

>>>>     transfer policy as soon as possible, but we must care about

>>>>     what is most important than that which is get policies to

>>>>     reflect what is really good for the region and not just to a

>>>>     few actors, even if it takes a bit longer. I support Jordi's

>>>>     suggestion to have another PPM in a few months so perhaps this

>>>>     proposal can advance from that point in time. LACNIC remained

>>>>     about 2 years without a Inter-RIR transfer policy after it run

>>>>     out of addresses for new organizations and survived. AfriNic

>>>>     will survive if it has to wait a few more months in order to

>>>>     get things really right.

>>>>

>>>>     Now going to the merit of the proposal specially the main point

>>>>     I oppose (5.7.4.3):

>>>>     There is no sense at all to keep considering transferred legacy

>>>>     resources as legacy. This doesn't work that way and has a

>>>>     proper reason to be like that which is fix a historical

>>>>     internet problem and reduce legacy resources with time as they

>>>>     get transferred to 'normal' organizations who purchased them in

>>>>     the market for example.

>>>>     In this way organizations receiving these resources are bind to

>>>>     the same rules everybody else making it much fair to everybody

>>>>     and making no distinction between members.

>>>>     Allowing resources to remain considered legacy only contributed

>>>>     to abuses and unfairness allowing those who can pay more do

>>>>     whatever they like which is bad for the rest of the Internet

>>>>     community which are subject to the same rules  that apply

>>>>     equally to them.

>>>>     If transferred legacy resources are not considered legacy

>>>>     anymore more and more they will apply equally for everybody as

>>>>     they become as a normal resource within any RIR. There has been

>>>>     a strong reason for this be like that until now and to continue

>>>>     like that.

>>>>

>>>>     Regards

>>>>     Fernando

>>>>

>>>>     On 23/09/2020 09:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>>>>     Hi Taiwo, all,

>>>>>

>>>>>     I've looked into the doc.

>>>>>

>>>>>     Let me say something before going into a more detailed analysis: I *fully support* this proposal, and I will be happy to withdraw it once:

>>>>>     1) The staff confirms that all the points on the staff analysis have been cleared and thus, the policy could be implemented and will be functional in the intended purpose.

>>>>>     2) The board ratifies the policy (which means also it passes the last call).

>>>>>

>>>>>     Why? If anything in the process fails, I still believe my proposal is clearer and never mind is my proposal or this one I'm happy to work with the authors to make sure to resolve the issues that may happen as indicated in 1 and 2 above (hopefully there are no issues).

>>>>>

>>>>>     I've now a more detailed analysis, please really, needs to be taken seriously with the staff or we may ruin the policy and not allow to be functional.

>>>>>

>>>>>     There is something which doesn't make sense: The text in point 5.7. The CPM should be read always as "actual" so "soon will exhaust ..." is not logic, neither needed for the purpose of this policy. In addition, there are typos there ...

>>>>>

>>>>>     This is an editorial change that according to the PDP should be possible as part of the last call. I will suggest to keep it simple:

>>>>>     5.7 IPv4 Resources transfer

>>>>>     This policy applies to an organization with a justified need for IPv4 resources (recipients) and organizations with IPv4 resources which no longer need (sources).

>>>>>

>>>>>     I see that the "disputes" issue has been resolved! Tks! Anyway, I think there is another editorial problem there.

>>>>>     Actual text:

>>>>>     5.7.3.1 The source must be the current rightful holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR, and shall be in compliance with the policies of the receiving RIR, and shall not be involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.

>>>>>

>>>>>     I suggest:

>>>>>     5.7.3.1 The source must be the current rightful holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR, in compliance with the relevant policies, and shall not be involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.

>>>>>

>>>>>     Keeping the "policies of the receiving RIR" is contradictory ... changing it with "relevant policies" allows both RIRs to ensure that everything is correct.

>>>>>

>>>>>     Grammar maybe, I'm not English native speaker:

>>>>>     "for 12 months period" or "for a 12 months period"

>>>>>

>>>>>     I think 5.7.3.3. doesn't add any value, it could be removed and doesn't change anything: if there is no limite, no need to mention it. If there is not agreement, clearly the transfer will not happen because the parties don't authorize it, and then the RIR(s) don't authorize it!

>>>>>

>>>>>     Similarly 5.7.4.2. could be removed as well. We already said that the recipient should comply with policies (5.7.3.1), so what is this adding? Just superfluous text.

>>>>>

>>>>>     Note also my imputs in the previous email, regarding the hold period and the legacy status. I think 5.7.4.3, should be "IPv4 legacy resources "Transferred incoming or within AFRINIC IPv4 legacy resources will no longer be regarded as legacy resources".

>>>>>

>>>>>     5.7.5.1 is already indicated by the staff as something problematic with the actual wording. The transferring party (the source) may not have any relation (not a member) with the receiving RIR. With this text we are enforcing *all the RIRs* to offer a standard template and process on our mandate. WE CAN'T DO THAT. Our policies only have a mandate in AFRINIC, not in the other RIRs.

>>>>>

>>>>>     If we just remove section 5.7.5, and leave it to the staff as part of the operational procedure, the the problem is resolved because the existing process among the all other 4 RIRs for transfers will be "joined" by AFRINIC. It is just a matter of interconection among systems and processes!

>>>>>

>>>>>     I think all this should be carefully studied among the authors and the staff and the chairs should make sure that the verstion coming to last call has corrected all those issues.

>>>>>

>>>>>     I hope all this is useful.

>>>>>       

>>>>>     Regards,

>>>>>     Jordi

>>>>>     @jordipalet

>>>>>       

>>>>>       

>>>>>

>>>>>     El 23/9/20 9:38, "Taiwo Oyewande"<taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>  <mailto:taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>  escribió:

>>>>>

>>>>>          Hello PDWG,

>>>>>

>>>>>          Attached is the updated version of the Resource Transfer Policy proposal. As recommended, changes have been effected on sub-section  5.7.3.2, and 5.7.4.3 according to the co-chair summary.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>          _______________________________________________

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>>>>>          https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd  <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>     **********************************************

>>>>>     IPv4 is over

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>>>>>     The IPv6 Company

>>>>>

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>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

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