[rpd] Abuse Contact Policy

[Frank Habicht]

Hi,

On 17/09/2020 11:48, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote:

> Hello,

> 

> 

> I will have to agree with Lucilla on what she said and would like to add

> to it that :

> 

> Firstly, Abuse enforcement is out of scope for RIRs.


AfriNIC is not asked to do abuse enforcement.



> Secondly, RIRs have no ability to define what is “abuse”, one abuse or

> even criminal activity could be entirely a legal operation in a

> different jurisdiction.


The RIR does not need to define "abuse".
It publishes contacts. Like a phone book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_directory

I get a spam email, *I* decide it's abuse. I don't need AfriNIC for
that. And then, I use the phone book.



> Finally, making a member forcefully reply to abuse contact Emails are a

> waste of resources and totally pointless, it is entirely up to the

> member to define what they think is acceptable in their network

> operation and how they react to it.


If  you tell me which network you're operating, It's entirely up to me
(not AfriNIC!!) to block all traffic to and from your network.



> AFRINIC has no mandate to force any

> member to reply to an “abuse”, since AFRINIC doesn’t even have the

> ability to identify what is considered an abuse.


We want to give them mandate to have contacts available.
Because I have the mandate to protect my network from your network.
Nobody wants AfriNIC to do anything other than make sure contacts are
published.

This is something many contributors seem to not have recognised.

I request the chairs to ignore contributions that obviously have not
recognised that noone wants AfriNIC to do actions other than ensuring
that contacts are published.



> Therefore the entire policy is out of scope for the RIR operation.


There is a misunderstanding.
And following wrong conclusions.

Regards,
Frank



> 

> 

> Regards,

> 

> 

> Lamiaa

> 

> 

> 

> Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 07:42, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD

> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> a écrit :

> 

>     Hi Lucilla,____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Today we already have mnt-IRT, and everybody who operate networks

>     understand what it is an abuse. If you operate networks you know

>     that **anything** which is a non-authorized use of a network is an

>     abuse.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     If you send spam, attack networks, try to intrude networks, etc.,

>     all those are abuse.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     What the policy ask is to make sure that in AFRINIC everybody has an

>     abuse contact (today we have mnt-IRT, but is not mandatory, and as a

>     results many African networks are filtered because lack of that –

>     and consequently they do not respond to abuse cases -, which exist

>     in all the other regions of the world).____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Not having an abuse means more chances of legal actions, more cost,

>     for both the victims and the ISPs. Having that means that you have

>     more chances to resolve it in goodfaith.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     One of the **most important** Afrinic missions is to have accuracy

>     on the database, which includes accuracy on the contacts. We are not

>     fulfilling that in this situation.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Remember that **all** the other RIRs have already this kind of

>     policy. This one is like the one that has been implemented in APNIC,

>     and the accuracy of the contacts is now 87.5% as reported this month

>     in the last APNIC meeting. In that report **none** of the members

>     indicated any of the issues that you indicated (didn't happened as

>     well in the other regions).____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     You know who is interested in not having abuse contacts? Those that

>     use their networks for doing abuse (hijacking, spam, DoS,

>     intrusions, etc.).____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Can you explain if the network that you operate has an abuse contact

>     an how if one of your customes is trying to penetrate my network or

>     do a DoS, I will be able to contact you and if you will do anything

>     or just ignore it?____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Regards,____

> 

>     Jordi____

> 

>     @jordipalet____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     El 17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro" <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com

>     <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> escribió:____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Dear all,____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     I have some concerns about the “Abuse Contact Policy”.____

> 

>     First of all, it does not offer a specific and regulated description

>     of the term “abuse”  and this opens the door to potentially bigger

>     problems: a surplus of reports, discrimination/legal issues, and a

>     waste of resources. Around the world, we can perceive what abuse is

>     in very different ways.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Afrinic is not entitled to force members to report abuses and most

>     importantly, this proposal does not represent Afrinic’s purpose.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     I, therefore, oppose this policy.____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Thank you,____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Lucilla ____

> 

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