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[rpd] Election
Nasir Faruk
nasirfaruk at gmail.com
Sun Aug 9 10:01:39 UTC 2020
Dear All,
Why not save ourselves from all these crisis by allowing tenure extension?
In any case, this year is an exceptional one and not only AFRINIC, every
aspect of our lives have been disrupted.
Certain complex problems, sometimes, require simple solutions.
My take on this issue again.
Best Regards.
Nasir.
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 5:09 AM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Elections (Owen DeLong)
> 2. (no subject) (Wole Dare)
> 3. (no subject) (Wole Dare)
> 4. Re: (no subject) (Fernando Frediani)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 17:15:15 -0700
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> To: Emem William <dwizard65 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sunday Ayuba <sundayayuba8 at gmail.com>, "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
> Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Elections
> Message-ID: <DC4A4588-1AE5-4BB0-B9B0-1B9C9FE91F84 at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As one of the people who was advocating for a past date certain when
> people must be on the mailing list,
> I wish to be clear? I have no dog in the fight over the six month
> requirement. I think it is a reasonable precaution against
> concerns expressed by others about fraud by stacking the registration
> process.
>
> However, if this concern can be ignored or adequately addressed by other
> means, then I would not object to eliminating
> the 6 month requirement.
>
> I would like to encourage everyone to answer the following questions:
>
> 1. Are you concerned about having an online election stacked by some
> group bringing in shills? (Yes or No)
>
> If you are not concerned, you can stop here or continue as you wish.
>
> 2. If so, do you feel that the 6-month requirement adequately
> addresses this concern?
>
> 3. If you are concerned, do you have an alternate mechanism you feel
> should be used to address this concern? What is it?
>
> I think that the answers to these questions could help inform any
> alternatives that the staff and/or board may choose to undertake.
>
> I would also like to point out that section 3.3 does NOT state that the
> PDWG co-chairs are chosen by the working group.
>
> It states that anyone participating in person or remotely is considered to
> be a part of the Policy Development Working Group.
>
> It goes on to state that ?The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC
> community during the Public Policy Meeting and
> serve staggered two-year terms.?
>
> The term ?AFRNIC community? is not defined in the CPM.
>
> I leave the interpretation of those facts and their implications to those
> smarter than me.
>
> Owen
>
> > On Aug 6, 2020, at 13:46 , Emem William <dwizard65 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > As Benjamin Investor and Sunday Ayuba have rightly said, there is no
> legitimate justification or reason for trying to disenfranchise some of the
> participants who subscribed to the rpd mailing list; will register and
> participate in the upcoming AIS '20 just because they did not subscribe to
> the mailing list on or before February 2020.
> >
> > I urge the CEO and indeed the AFRINIC Board to look into this and ensure
> that the rule of law prevails and everything goes in line with the content
> of the AFRINIC CPM.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Emem William
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 17:14 Sunday Ayuba <sundayayuba8 at gmail.com <mailto:
> sundayayuba8 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Dear AFRINIC CEO,
> > Please can you explain to the community why you are setting the six
> months rule on who can vote and those who cannot vote. The CPM is very
> clear on who are members of the WG. It clearly states any person
> > I quote the CPM
> > " *Any person* can, participating either in person or remotely, is
> considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.
> >
> > The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its
> administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC
> community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year
> terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding
> to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or
> end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later
> than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual
> agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair."
> >
> > It is only the members of the WG that determine the co chairs are. This
> is an abberation that some people would be dienfrinchiced based on some
> rules suggested by a section of the community more especially when these
> section are in the minority. The election rules are very also clear it is
> by show of hands and am sure we can do show of hands. If you know that we
> are ripe for an online election then we should follow the rules. Organise
> an online election that follows the CPM. All Members of the working group
> would vote by show of hands. This is very simple. It would not be
> acceptable to this community if AFRINIC staff are now conniving with a
> section of the community to deny some people thier right. Are we now trying
> to divide the community into old and new members now because of elections.
> You should be glad that more people are now participating in the community.
> It's a multi-stakeholder process. The more people participating the better.
> The bigger the community the better. We all are stakeholders in the
> internet Community and we all are members of the working group and we all
> must participate in the election
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sunday Ayuba.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 04:28:23 +0100
> From: Wole Dare <woledare0 at gmail.com>
> To: RPD at afrinic.net
> Subject: [rpd] (no subject)
> Message-ID:
> <CAF8Ae5e=
> U89e51RJ2_Mg86SDV9+UbuHB76ZSwyDZbgSzP4VWBA at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> I support Sunday Ayuba.
>
>
> Regards, Wole Afolayan.
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> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 04:37:00 +0100
> From: Wole Dare <woledare0 at gmail.com>
> To: RPD at afrinic.net
> Subject: [rpd] (no subject)
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAF8Ae5eHVxu9QQ7pT5Lfv15YZVu7py0M5DL1ADmkihZRb3oZHw at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> I support Benjamin Investor
>
> Regards,
> Wole Afolayan
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> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 01:08:25 -0300
> From: Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>
> To: rpd at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [rpd] (no subject)
> Message-ID: <1ecc3cf6-8bd3-4327-50fc-af51fc679d27 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hello
>
> While I fully understand what you say and your concerns, I see that the
> community is not been able to move towards a solution and what makes it
> difficult is how short PDP has been about elections. If there is not
> solution how can we stand ? Keep things like they are until they get
> worse and worse. That must be a solution to this difficult and yet
> unknown scenario.
> As a last resource I find reasonable that the RIR Board conduct things
> that are unclear or missing in the PDP, otherwise the Internet in the
> region is the one to loose from it and therefore everybody. In other RIR
> Board has been the ultimate place to resolve the most difficult points
> similar to this.
> Jordi's proposal was not unanimously rejected. Please be careful to use
> this word here. It has been used by others recently as pure
> exaggeration. But I don't think this is about his proposal.
>
> Agree the Charis should have a more active role in trying to resolve
> this issue. However one of them seems to be nominated to continue, which
> makes the things more difficult.
>
> It makes a lot of sense that not everybody can take part on any decision
> or election, otherwise it open a wide door to fraud which makes this
> forum a even worse place.
>
> Regards
> Fernando
>
> On 06/08/2020 16:06, Benjamin Investor wrote:
> > Dear Jordi,
> > Thank you for your email. Thank you for mentioning the fact that
> > election is a community issue. The board has no role in PDP process
> > execpt to approve the final proposal sent to them by the chairs. what
> > process is the board setting up?? We need to be very careful here.?
> > Today you are proposing that the board should dictate how PDWG
> > election should be conducted so that your proposal that was
> > unanimously rejected be passed through the back door. Untill when the
> > process is passed by the community it cannot be implemented.
> > What I can see here is an attempt by AFRINIC to connive with Jordi and
> > his friends to pass a policy unanimously rejected by the community
> > through the back door in the name of COVID 19. Online elections are
> > allowed by the current policy but it must be carried out as specified
> > in the election guideline circulated when we opened nomination and the
> > current policy.
> > Jodie you said the PDP does not tell us how to conduct elections. Can
> > you answer the following questions
> > 1. Who has the power to varry the PDP process. Has the CEO and the
> > board carried the co chairs along in these process.? If yes then they
> > should come out and tell us that they are varring the process.
> > 2. Does the PDP define who the members of the PDWG are
> > 3. Does the PDP tell us who are the members of the WG who can elect
> > the chair?
> > Please read the policy manual and answer these questions honestly.
> > I think the co chairs needs to come out and tell us the correct
> > position of things.
> > Co chairs, it is your responsibility to determine how the election is
> > going to be conducted. You have the sole right to varry the process.
> > Please do not allow the likes of Jordi to come and carry out a coup
> > here. Your job is to guide the community as dictated by the policy
> > manual. Co chairs you can't sit on the fence on this issue cos it's an
> > attempt to ridicle the PDP process through the back door.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:50 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
> > <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Benjamin,
> >
> > There is something that you?re probably missing.
> >
> > The PDP is short in the elections. The PDP doesn't state how the
> > elections are done, only a very generic framework, so in that case
> > all is up to the Board.
> >
> > The Board decided at some point to setup a process, and
> > consequently the board is the one to modify the process.
> >
> > While I agree that this process should be managed by the
> > community, in this situation we can?t do that, so we should keep
> > the process in the way the Board decided and work towards a real
> > community decided process.
> >
> > This is why, without having the crystal ball and consequently not
> > knowing about the coming Covid-19 pandemic, in November 2019, we
> > started to work in a complete proposal for this ?*Chairs Elections
> > Process*?:
> >
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-gen-007-d1#proposal
> >
> > The authors are right now working in updating this proposal, so I
> > will suggest that we could invest some time in discussing it, so
> > we can send a new version in a few days.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > @jordipalet
> >
> > El 6/8/20 17:33, "Benjamin Investor" <investor0189 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:investor0189 at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >
> > Dear CEO,
> >
> > Thank you for the email and the wonderful job you have been doing
> > since appointed. However regarding your email, I totally disagree
> > with you based on the following
> >
> > 1. The guiding book of PDWG is the CPM and not the CEO's decision.
> >
> > 2. The CPM is clear on who is a member of the PDWG. The CPM states
> > clearly that Any person who has joined the making list is a member
> > of if the working group.
> >
> > 3. The CPM is also clear the chair is elected by members of the
> > working group.
> >
> > 4. There is no where in the CPM where there is a 6 months rule on
> > voting therefore the rule cannot be created now. You cannot change
> > the goalpost at the middle of the game. The election guideline
> > issues at the time of nomination process is very clear as to how
> > the election would take place. This is by shoe of hand. Show of
> > hand can also be done online
> >
> > 5. How can the AFRNIC determine that the increase in mailing list
> > is because of elections. We all know that as a result of COVID 19
> > everyone is now moving online are you saying we would not deny
> > this people the option to vote? We definitely cannot do that. For
> > example I have been on the mailing list in the past and I opted
> > out because of all the confusing and abuse always happening and I
> > joined back again last week are you now going to deny me? and
> > others like me the opportunity to vote? This seams like an attempt
> > by AFRINIC to rig the election in favour of the some groups.
> >
> > 6. You made reference to other RIR can you please mention one RIR
> > that has the 6 months rule in place before Thier online election. ?
> >
> > 7. I think AFRINIC needs to be careful. AFRINIC staff is expected
> > to be neutral in all cases and if Afrinic staff are now judging
> > new members as to Thier motive of joining the WG this is not ideal.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list
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> >
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