[rpd] Attention(Correction): Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing

[ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE]

Dear Noha,

On Wed, 11 Mar 2020, 23:35 Noah, <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:


>

> Hi Abdulkarim

>

> I am probably older than you on this list and I assume you know that and I

> know what AfriNIC policy discussions mean and how respectful I am to

> principles.

>


Maybe, however I have no disrespect for you or anyone more especially when
they are older but the community elected me to do a job and I would do the
job with guidance from the policy document drawn up by the community
without personal interference.


>

> The list archives tell how various discussions had happened in the past in

> case anyone needs to know more about what is discussed here.

>

Sure


>

> The URL you shared to yourself and to your members (please define who

> these members are) is meaningless.

>


I do not think it is meaningless. It speaks for itself and it serves as
part of the guiding documents for the rpd. It was there for a reason in
the first place.


>

> Section 3.0 of the PDP clearly states  the following:

>

> 3) Scope

>

> "The Policy Development Process covers the development and modification of

> policies for handling Internet Number Resources within the AfriNIC service

> region. Changes to the Policy Development Process itself will also follow

> the process."

>

> The ongoing discussion is about the PDP which falls under the scope of the

> PDP and therefore on  this list.

>


I totally disagree. Please tell me what policy it relates too?. Discussions
on here should be related to a policy
 There are other mailing list for frivolous discussions or discussion not
related to a Policy.


>

> Therefore imho, let the working group conclude the important discussions

> and your role as cochairs would have been to summarize the discussions and

> perhaps propose the way forward.

>

Unfortunately, There is nothing to summerize here as it not a policy
proposal. That is exactly what I pointed out. This discussion is about
fellowships and not  policy proposal. We can't do anything about it on
here. It is pointless.
I hope you get it. I have my personal opinion about the fellowship program
but it not for this list.
Cheers

Abdulkarim


>

> Cheers,

> Noah

>

>

> https://afrinic.net/policy-development-process-in-the-afrinic-service-region

>

> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, 23:44 ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE, <

> oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> wrote:

>

>> Hi Noah,

>>

>> The RPD list is a place to discuss Internet Number Resources Allocation

>> Policies in the African region. It is also a member-based list.

>>

>> If you recall when you first registered to be a member of this list, you

>> should have seen the above clearly stated in the page.

>>

>> As chair, it’s our duty to have the list focused on solely its purpose -

>> discussion about number resources allocation policies.

>>

>> I hereby attach the link, just to remind myself and my members the

>> purpose of the list: https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd

>>

>> Please be aware that posts irrelevant to policy discussions will be

>> moderated by co-chairs.

>>

>> Cheers,

>> Co-chair

>>

>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:44 AM Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> Dear PDWG members,

>>>

>>> Happy Women's Day!

>>>

>>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing

>>> close. We pray and hope that the corona Virus outbreak will be

>>> contained soon.

>>>

>>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from

>>> the

>>> RPD list as it's irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.

>>>

>>> It has been observed that, this discussion has created tension among the

>>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.

>>>

>>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in

>>> the

>>> RPD list. We respect everyone's opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is

>>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.

>>>

>>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are

>>> focused

>>> on policies as it's the main purpose it was created.

>>>

>>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.

>>>

>>> Best regards,

>>>

>>> Co-chairs

>>>

>>>

>>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to

>>>>         rpd at afrinic.net

>>>>

>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

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>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>>>>         rpd-request at afrinic.net

>>>>

>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at

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>>>>

>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>>>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Today's Topics:

>>>>

>>>>    1. Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing

>>>>       list. (Moses Serugo)

>>>>    2. Re: Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings (Noah)

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> Message: 1

>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:05:53 +0300

>>>> From: Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>

>>>> To: rpd at afrinic.net

>>>> Subject: [rpd] Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD

>>>>         mailing list.

>>>> Message-ID:

>>>>         <

>>>> CACxMiga21rQLfCb3fjPRnj4HfMr2BNBwN9BnQRw1CXCoBZjWoQ at mail.gmail.com>

>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>>>

>>>> Dear PDWG members,

>>>>

>>>> Happy Women's Day!

>>>>

>>>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing

>>>> close. We also hope that the corona Virus outbreak will not will be

>>>> contained soon.

>>>>

>>>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from

>>>> the

>>>> RPD list as it?s irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.

>>>>

>>>> We have observed that, this discussion has created tension among the

>>>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.

>>>>

>>>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in

>>>> the

>>>> RPD list. We respect everyone?s opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD

>>>> is

>>>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.

>>>>

>>>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are

>>>> focused

>>>> on policies as it?s the main purpose it was created.

>>>>

>>>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.

>>>>

>>>> Best regards,

>>>>

>>>> Co-chairs

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>>>>

>>>> ------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> Message: 2

>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:36:13 +0300

>>>> From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>

>>>> To: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>>>> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>

>>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings

>>>> Message-ID:

>>>>         <

>>>> CAEqgTWbZbHVnX9EjB-xuvptKOCymop8zZPMxTtawSUfLfmoM4w at mail.gmail.com>

>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>>>

>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 6:59 PM Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> > Let me start off by indicating again that I do not believe this is an

>>>> > appropriate topic for the rpd list - unless and until someone

>>>> proposes a

>>>> > policy regarding funding (which IMO will be out of bounds of the

>>>> PDP). This

>>>> > is a community or members list issue.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> Hi Mike,

>>>>

>>>> This is not a member-list issue actually. Perhaps the community-list,

>>>> but

>>>> it is surely PDP related and should be discussed on this very rpd-list

>>>> and

>>>> in fact during the Public Policy Meetings. Also not everything

>>>> discussed on

>>>> this rpd list or at during the PPM leads to policy actions.

>>>>

>>>> In the case of the issue currently under discussion, the outcome might

>>>> not

>>>> be a proposal on funding, but rather changes in the PDP to guarantee its

>>>> integrity and increase its resistance to *potential* *capture*  and

>>>> *abuses*,

>>>> in addition to *ethical* and conservative measures AfriNIC as an

>>>> organisation must undertake.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> > If I can summarise:

>>>> >

>>>> > - many people get funding to attend meetings, some from their

>>>> employers,

>>>> > some from AfriNIC (excluding employees) and some from various funding

>>>> > institutions;

>>>> > - when travel costs are paid by an employer, we accept that the

>>>> attendee

>>>> > will consider the impact on the employer before engaging in

>>>> discussions

>>>> > (even if the views are their own). AfriNIC funded attendees (other

>>>> than

>>>> > employees) are expected to follow their own views - whether we agree

>>>> with

>>>> > them or not. We are unsure whether attendees sponsored by an opaque

>>>> funding

>>>> > institution may have been indoctrinated to follow a particular view.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> It is not only the AfriNIC funded attendees (fellows) that are expected

>>>> to

>>>> follow their own views.

>>>>

>>>> Everyone is expected to follow their own views according to the

>>>> intentions

>>>> of the PDP and this is irrespective of funding source (i.e be principled

>>>> and work only in the interest of AfriNIC).

>>>>

>>>> You have also noted impact on employer, but there?s also employer

>>>> impact on

>>>> what should be an individualized PDP participation across various

>>>> working

>>>> groups.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> > The conclusion drawn by some is that attendees sponsored by an opaque

>>>> > funding institution have been indoctrinated and this somehow corrupts

>>>> the

>>>> > policy development process.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> Interesting you refer to attendees sponsored by opaque organizations. In

>>>> fact opaque organizations should not exist within the context of AfriNIC

>>>> let alone to be involved in sponsoring anything related to AfriNIC

>>>> activities.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> > Outside of that there has been mudslinging against various

>>>> institutions

>>>> > and various people, indicating yet again that our community is

>>>> divided.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> Please can you kindly indicate the indicated division in our community?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> >

>>>> > In my view, the issue is not funding, or stacking the room or

>>>> > indoctrination or training - it is about TRUST. In a community where

>>>> few

>>>> > trust each other, then the only option to improve trust is

>>>> transparency.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> What if it?s not about trust but rather *capture*, *control* and

>>>> *abuse* of

>>>> AfriNIC Internet Number Resources?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> >

>>>> > Transparency will allow us to leap to conclusions based on

>>>> affiliation -

>>>> > without considering the argue. However, that seems to be the

>>>> preferred mode

>>>> > of operation in this community, so who am I to judge.

>>>> >

>>>> > In my view transparency can be achieved in two ways: (i) the

>>>> publication

>>>> > of a statement of interest, setting out organisational affiliations,

>>>> such

>>>> > as employer or clients of a consultant (and confirming that the

>>>> person is a

>>>> > real human and not a sock puppet) **before** participating in the rpd

>>>> > list; and (ii) when at a meeting, participants must introduce

>>>> themselves

>>>> > and indicate their organisational affiliation **as well as anyone

>>>> funding

>>>> > their travel** if not their organisation. For example - my name is

>>>> John,

>>>> > I work at XYZ ISP and I am an AfriNIC funded fellow.

>>>> >

>>>> > I think those two simple approaches are basic etiquette and can be

>>>> > included in the Code of Conduct. I also think AfriNIC can create a

>>>> > ?statement of interest? database with minimal effort (and no personal

>>>> > identifying information).

>>>> >

>>>> > If this is followed, aside for possible reporting of violations of the

>>>> > Code of Conduct, we can remove this inane and pointless discussion

>>>> from the

>>>> > rpd list.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> Everything was transparent up until the opaque organizations arrived

>>>> with

>>>> their strings attached funding from what we have seen.

>>>>

>>>> Noah

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> > Mike

>>>> >

>>>> > _______________________________________________

>>>> > RPD mailing list

>>>> > RPD at afrinic.net

>>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>>> >

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>>>>

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>>>>

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>>>> RPD mailing list

>>>> RPD at afrinic.net

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>>>> ------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> End of RPD Digest, Vol 162, Issue 25

>>>> ************************************

>>>>

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>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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