[rpd] Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

It is not comparable.

It is normal that a company, within ethics limits, tell the employees what is good for them. And it is impossible to ensure that the employees take their own decision and they understand that in the policy meeting we are "individuals", not companies or representatives of companies.

In the IETF we have the same problem, as you can guess, and because it is bases in consensus, not "votes", even if a single company has 1.000 employees, they don't count as votes in favor or against any document.

But in this case a sponsor is not "funding" employees. It is a sponsor an for me "sponsor" in that sense is not the same as a company "paying" the expenses of its employees.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 19/2/20 2:30, "Ish Sookun" <ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu> escribió:

    Folks,
    
    Let me ask this question. I work for X company and if X pays for my
    travel to attend an AFRINIC meeting and I support policies that work in
    favor of X, is that unethical?
    
    Now, imagine if X pays for two employees to attend the meeting and
    contribute to policy discussions in favor of X, is that unethical?
    
    Finally, imagine X has enough cash to sponsor some students or aspiring
    network engineers to attend an AFRINIC meeting and helps them discover
    how policies are written at AFRINIC. Now, if those sponsored
    students/engineers support policies that are favorable to X, is that
    unethical?
    
    Where do you draw the line?
    
    Regards,
    
    Ish Sookun
    
    On 18/02/2020 19:16, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:
    > Hi Jordi, I must confess that I appreciate your dispassionate attempts
    > at responses to issues on the RPD. I can attest to your "No Hidden
    > Agenda". However, I wanted to know whether Larus Foundation was the only
    > organisation that attempted providing support and doing that exclusive
    > of the AfriNIC structure.
    > 
    > my expression "If we are not careful we will raise the dead" is not
    > native English, but a Nigerian saying that reminds us, not to start
    > digging things that have been buried. Note that we had previously argued
    > that there were certain organisations that sponsored a section of the
    > African community to AIS and AfriNIC with specific objective of given
    > them more advantage at the expense of others. Surprisingly, nothing was
    > wrong with their approach. I am not a paid defender of Larus Foundation,
    > but my people have benefited from their sponsorship and their joy of
    > participating is my motivation to encourage Larus Foundation. If Larus
    > Foundation decides to toe the line of your earlier suggestion, I am
    > still okay with it as long as "my people" will continue to have the
    > opportunity to access the fellowship. cheers
    > Daniel
    > 
    > On 18/02/2020 1:32 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
    >> Hi Daniel,
    >>
    >> I'm not 100% sure, because I've never been involved, but I believe there have been several organizations providing funds for sponsoring fellows, or indirectly, sponsoring AFRINIC meetings in such way that AFRINIC can "use" these funds in the best possible way.
    >>
    >> I don't understand your second point "If we are not careful we will raise the dead", probably it is an expression, but not being native English, don't make sense to me how to apply it to this context.
    >>
    >> Note that I've nothing neither for/against Larus or any other organization, so I'm transparent and I've personally said this, by pure chance *tonight* in the APNIC meeting welcome reception, to Lu Heng (Larus owner, I believe).
    >>
    >> For further disclosure, I've never done any business with Larus neither any other broker. I've sometimes provided customers contacts to some brokers, including Larus (*once* during the meeting in Kampala a year ago). I'm happy to help everyone, and I did that openly in the meeting room, with other people around, and as I always did, when he offered me a commission, I rejected it, "give a better price to the customer". Call me an idiot or whatever, but I don't feel right, neither honest to accept commissions just for providing a contact and helping both parties to be in touch. No hidden agenda from my side.
    >>
    >> If I do a work,  a training, a consultancy, whatever, of course, I want to be paid for that, because it requires me investing time and providing my expertise (which cost many years to develop) and getting paid is the only way I can keep contributing to the community, pay for my food, etc.. However, getting paid a commission for dedicating *10 seconds* to send an email to connect to parties? No *I've never in my life accepted it*, and as said, I don't feel it is right.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Jordi
    >> @jordipalet
    >>  
    >>  
    >>
    >> El 18/2/20 21:57, "Daniel Yakmut" <yakmutd at googlemail.com> escribió:
    >>
    >>     Hi Jordi,
    >>     
    >>     Has there been or is there any organization that has sponsored 
    >>     individuals to AfriNIC meetings aside Larus Foundation, independently 
    >>     outside the AfriNIC structure?
    >>     
    >>     If we are not careful we will raise the dead.
    >>     
    >>     Cheers
    >>     
    >>     Daniel
    >>     
    >>     On 18/02/2020 7:01 am, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
    >>     > I've proposed a very simple solution to this long time ago, which I think it is very transparent and open. Short version reminder here:
    >>     >
    >>     > Organizations that want to sponsor fellows are very welcome, but this need to be coordinated with AFRINIC. Sponsors don't need to know who are the fellows, AFRINIC will select them based in the rules jointly agreed with the sponsor. AFRINIC and sponsor jointly define other details such as what training materials are provided to the fellows, how they are evaluated and if they don't match certain requirements (such as not actually coming to the sessions, etc.), if they don't get reimbursed all the costs, etc.
    >>     >
    >>     > If a sponsor doesn't want to follow those rules, then AFRINIC could reject that sponsorship and ban them.
    >>     >
    >>     > This provides the same advantages to all the parties, but the community can be sure that fellows aren't influenced in any way.
    >>     >
    >>     > Again, this is generic idea, many other details can be fixed, but I don't think it is so difficult to match what both AFRINIC (organization), sponsors, fellows and community need.
    >>     >
    >>     > Regards,
    >>     > Jordi
    >>     > @jordipalet
    >>     >   
    >>     >   
    >>     >
    >>     > El 18/2/20 15:56, "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> escribió:
    >>     >
    >>     >      
    >>     >      
    >>     >      Sent from my iPhone
    >>     >      
    >>     >      > On 17 Feb 2020, at 01:21, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
    >>     >      >
    >>     >      > Please just say what you mean.
    >>     >      >
    >>     >      > Owen
    >>     >      
    >>     >      It walks like a duck ....  we are paying money to motivate participation.
    >>     >      
    >>     >      In another context one might call it corruption.
    >>     >      
    >>     >      Some people are publicly shifting long held positions since laurus seems to be paying.   ....... looks like a duck
    >>     >      
    >>     >      
    >>     >      The evidence is clear ...must be a duck 🦆
    >>     >      
    >>     >      When i look back in the historical threads the Owen i know seems to be speaking a different language these days.
    >>     >      
    >>     >      But maybe its just my limited capacity to comprehend the issues at hand.
    >>     >      
    >>     >      Regards.
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