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[rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 160, Issue 9
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Mon Jan 6 07:42:43 UTC 2020
Hi Kakel,
This is nothing different to the actual function of AFRINIC (or any other RIR). However:
This policy only allows to create the AS0 ROAs for unallocated/unnasigned space
Is stating that only for AFRINIC
So:
Already allocated/assigned space to members is not affected.
Is not related at all to goverments (nor giving any additional power to goverments)
Remember that AFRINIC is not under mandate of any government, just the community.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 6/1/20 5:58, "Kakel Mbumb" <kakelmbumb at gmail.com> escribió:
Hello Jordi, what i mean is RPKI centralises the control of the Internet and allows AFRINIC to create ROAs for all unallocated and unassigned address space under its control. Only AFRINIC has the authority to create RPKI ROAs for address space not yet allocated or assigned to its members. This thus concentrates the control of the internet to AFRINIC.
I think you get my point now...
Le sam. 4 janv. 2020 à 13:42, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> a écrit :
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for Unallocated
and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space" (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2020 12:40:18 +0100
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
To: <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for
Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space"
Message-ID: <F80D890C-5CE4-4713-81E4-21F0E07D96AE at consulintel.es>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Kakel,
I believe you?re getting it wrong.
I can?t see how this proposal has any implications in any government manipulation over Internet. Can you explain it?
Remember that to oposse to any proposal, you need to reasonably justifiy your opossition, specially during the last-call, in case something hasn?t been discovered in the previous stage, when the proposal already reached consensus.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 4/1/20 12:23, "Kakel Mbumb" <kakelmbumb at gmail.com> escribi?:
The proposal for RPKI is not applicable as it centralises the control of internet; and also represents a potential risk for government to overtake it.
We are a community and need to be independent on the way we treat our resources; so i oppose this proposal.
KAKEL MBUMB
Charg? du D?partement Entrepreneuriat au Forum National de la Jeunesse (FNJ)
Coordinator, YPARD-RDC Grand Katanga, Agricultural Development through Youths
Project Vice Coordinator, Agribusiness Cooperative - CAAPJECO
Consultant, RESOJEC, Youth Chamber of Commerce
Country Representative, Mashinani Hub ,ICT skills for rural communities
Yali RLC EA Cohort 6 Alumnus, Business & Entrepreneurship
Lubumbashi, Haut-Katanga Province
Democratic Republic of the Congo (Congo, DRC)
Phone: +243 993 656 038 (Whatsapp)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kakelmbumb
Twitter: https://twitter.com/KakelMbumb
Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kakel-mbumb-240534ba/
Skype: kakel.mbumb1
Le sam. 4 janv. 2020 ? 12:07, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> a ?crit :
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and
Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space" (Sylvain Baya)
2. Re: New policy proposals and updated ones - RPKI-ROAs
(Daniel Yakmut)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 00:01:55 +0100
From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>, "PDWG's Mailing List"
<rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: [rpd] AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for Unallocated
and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space"
Message-ID:
<CAJjTEvEDJog_EvR8O5VYvi6uf+yhdN-tsWhzaxnhkDH4mGSTwg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi all,
Best wishes for this new year ; added in the Grace era !
Please my comments are below (inline)...
2020-01-03 17:46 UTC+01:00, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>:
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 06:38 , Paschal Ochang <pascosoft at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jordi,
>> feliz Navidad y un Feliz A?o Nuevo.
>>
>> I have some concerns regarding this proposal and also some clarifications
>> .
>>
>> I think statistically AFRINIC has a good percentage of IPv4 address space
>> covered by route origin authorization as compared to APNIC. APNIC has a
>> very low percentage statically hence it's hurried acceptance of the
>> proposal.
>
> I corrected the subject line to be descriptive of what is meant by ?the
> proposal/this proposal??
>
Dear Owen,
Thanks for your email.
...yes ! adjusting the subject line helps to focus the discussion,
but i'm not sure that there was a real need in this particular case :-/
...btw, your timing is perfect, with the new year :-D
>
> There?s no relationship between your statement and the proposal.
>
...not sure !
But if you append ?intent? to ?proposal? ; then i'll certainly agree ; -)
...please see below.
>
> The proposal creates AS0 ROAs for addresses in the RIR inventory which have
> not been issued or which have been reclaimed or returned.
>
Exact !
...but don't forget that usually, in this PDWG, the title and problem statement
(and even the description of the proposed solution) of a DPP (Draft Policy
Proposal) means nothing.
Yes, that's sad ! but true :'-(
>
> It has nothing to do with addresses which have been issued but are not
> covered by an ROA.
>
> As such, I see no problem with the proposal.
>
>> I think using the approach in this policy is majorly to handle accidental
>> incidents rather than malicious attacks whereby someone might try to
>> manipulate an AS path.
>
> RPKI does nothing at all to help with manipulated AS Paths. It is only
> effective against prefixes originated from the wrong ASN.
>
> In the case of this policy, it will aid in the prevention/detection of
> unauthorized use of unallocated number resources.
>
>> It is suggested to always drop invalid announcements, rather than applying
>> a lower preference. This is because sub-prefix hijackings would be still
>> possible if invalids are accepted and this would go against the purpose of
>> RPKI validation. However I think the text should state how invalids
>> should be dropped in order not to trigger loosing connectivity.
>
> I?m not sure how many different ways you think there are to drop a route. At
> least on the routers I?ve run (Cisco, Juniper, Mikrotik, Vyatta, Ascend,
> Livingston, Foundry, etc.), you can either drop a prefix or accept it. The
> decision is binary and there are not multiple ?ways? to drop on. In some
> cases, you can choose additional behaviors such as logging, but I hardly see
> that as relevant to whether connectivity is preserved or not.
>
> I think what you may be missing in your understanding is that Invalid is not
> the same as Unknown. RPKI validation provides three possible results:
> 1. Valid ? The route matches a ROA and the ROA matches the Origin ASN.
> Further, the ROA signature chain is cryptographically valid.
> 2. Invalid ? The route matches a ROA, but either the ROA signature fails
> validation or the Origin ASN does not match or the prefix length is longer
> than the specified maximum.
> 3. Not Found/Unknown ? The route does not match a ROA
>
> Note that a prefix which is shorter than an intersecting ROA is considered
> not to match. See table below for details on how this works out:
>
>
> ROA Prefix
> MAX Length
> Origin AS
> Received Prefix
> Origin AS
> Result
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 24
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 64498
> Invalid
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 24
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 64498
> Invalid
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 24
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 65550
> Valid
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 24
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 65550
> Invalid
>
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 28
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 64498
> Unknown
>
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 28
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 65550
> Unknown
>
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 28
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 64498
> Invalid
>
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 28
> 65550
> 192.0.2.0/28
> 65550
> Valid
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 24
> 65550
> 192.0.2.64/26
> 65550
> Invalid
>
> 192.0.2.0/24
> 28
> 65550
> 192.0.2.64/26
> 65550
> Valid
>
>
>> Finally I dont think it will be a nice idea allowing resource holders to
>> create AS0 ROA as I think this scenario might increase the issue of
>> invalid prefixes in the routing tables.
>
> This proposal does not allow resource holders to create AS0 ROAs. It expects
> AfriNIC to create AS0 ROAs for space which is within AfriNIC administration,
> but which is not currently issued.
>
...i think the following portion of the [1] text explains the concerns
raised by Paschal :
?[...] Any resource holder can create AS0 (zero) ROAs for the
resources they have
under their account/administration.
An RPKI ROA is a positive attestation that a prefix holder has
authorized an Autonomous System to originate a route for this prefix
to the global BGP routing table. An RPKI ROA for the same prefixes
with AS0 (zero) origin shows a negative intent from the resource
holder to have the prefixes advertised in the global BGP routing
table. [...]?
__
[1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-gen-006-d1/amp>
>
> I hope that clarifies the situation.
>
...not sure, but you did more for most of the participants, in
promoting RPKI (Resource Public Key Infrastructure), ROA (Route Origin
Autorisation) and ROV (RPKI-based route Origin Validation). So,
validate and drop non-valid routes...
IMHO, what would clarify is to :
??/
?'drop'/remove that portion of the text :-)
? (eventually) create a sub-section to provide definitions
for new concepts. The definition sub-section would remove
any ambiguity.
? (even if i think that this proposal is too much operational)
simplify the core policy text like this :
?1| ?AFRINIC MUST/will create ROAs with origin AS0 for all
the unallocated and unassigned address space (IPv4 & IPv6)
for which it is the current administrator.?
?2| (i prefer this less operational version) ?AFRINIC MUST/will
flag/mark all the unused (unallocated & unassigned) address
space (IPv4 & IPv6) for which it is the current administrator.
In order to render its unused address space unsquattable
in a global secured routing context.?
? ...
??\
The difference with my version (2|) is that it's more agnostic
(technologcally/operationally speaking) and portable then it
could (probably) more easily pass in all RIRs with the same
text. To be proposed as a global policy : final/first goal of the
authors :-)
...to be clearer, i prefer ?resource? rather than ?address space? ;-)
Shalom,
--sb.
>
> Owen
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
>> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> Hi Sylvain,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 5/11/19 6:11, "Sylvain Baya" <abscoco at gmail.com
>> <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope you are doing well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please comments below (inline)...
>>
>>
>>
>> Le mardi 5 novembre 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net
>> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> a ?crit :
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> [...]
>> This is the list of new policy proposals (note that the numbering can be
>> modified by the staff when published).
>>
>> 1) AFPUB-2019-IPv6-002-DRAFT01: "Adjusting IPv6 PA Policy"
>> Solves a discrepancy between IPv6 PI and IPv6 PA regarding the
>> announcement of aggregated addressing space.
>>
>> 2) AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01: "Chairs Elections Process"
>> Including in the CPM a detailed procedure for the chair's elections.
>>
>> 3) AFPUB-2019-GEN-004-DRAFT01: "M&A Resource Transfers"
>> Including in the CPM intra-RIR M&A for ASN, IPv4 and IPv6.
>>
>> 4) AFPUB-2019-GEN-005-DRAFT01: "Impact Analysis is Mandatory"
>>
>> 5) AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned
>> AFRINIC Address Space"
>>
>>
>>
>> ...i like this one. I recall that i was thinking ok how to solve the
>> problem of 'Internet resources
>>
>> squatting'. I was naively imagining a solution where a RIR will have to
>> flag all their
>>
>> unallocated|unassigned Address Space ; via a particular attribute of the
>> IRR (Internet Routing
>>
>> Registry). Now i understand that i was not too dummy or even crazy :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh no! In that case the crazy one is me :-) !
>>
>>
>>
>> Please send me your DPP (Draft Policy Proposal), i can not wait more to
>> review it ;-)
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was thinking in sending them in order (2 more today, 2 more tomorrow),
>> but as you have interest in this one. My next one will be this one, I
>> promise! Give me first a few minutes to respond to all the emails I got
>> till now ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Shalom,
>>
>> --sb.
>>
>>
>>
>> Updated policy proposals:
>>
>> a) AFPUB-2019-ASN-001-DRAFT03: "Multihoming not required for ASN"
>>
>> b) AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT02: "IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers
>> (Comprehensive Scope)"
>>
>> c) AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT04: "Abuse Contact Policy Update"
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jordi
>> @jordipalet
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards !
>>
>>
>>
>> Sylvain BAYA
>>
>> cmNOG's Co-Founder & Coordinator
>>
>> (+237) 677005341
>>
>> PO Box 13107 YAOUNDE / CAMEROON
>>
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm]
>>
>> abscoco2001 [AT yahoo DOT fr]
>>
>> http://www.cmnog.cm <http://www.cmnog.cm/>
>> https://cmnog.wordpress.com <https://cmnog.wordpress.com/>
>> ************************
>>
>> ?#?LASAINTEBIBLE(?#?Romains15:33):"Que LE ?#?DIEU de ?#?Paix soit avec
>> vous tous!?#?Amen!"
>>
>> ?#?MaPri?re est que tu naisses de nouveau.
>>
>> ?#?Chr?tiennement
>>
>> ? Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, Ainsi mon
>> ?me soupire apr?s toi, ? DIEU! ? (Psaumes 42 :2)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> communication and delete it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
--
Best Regards !
baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> |
<https://survey.cmnog.cm>
Subscribe to Mailing List : <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
__
#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 11:05:58 +0100
From: Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com>
To: Paschal Ochang <pascosoft at gmail.com>, "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New policy proposals and updated ones - RPKI-ROAs
Message-ID: <af4aee1c-37a2-fd08-1672-e4b02f124de5 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
The current state of RPKI infrastructure, does not provide a sufficient
period between revocation of ROA and notification that a given prefix
has been allocated to an organization, which can impact considerably on
allocations. Except we can be able to provide a sufficient period or
create a different procedure, the proposal for the RPKI-ROAs does not fly.
On 30/12/2019 6:12 pm, Paschal Ochang wrote:
> Yes in a way.
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com
> <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 30/12/2019 11:38, Paschal Ochang wrote:
>>
>> It is suggested to always drop invalid announcements, rather than
>> applying a lower preference. This is because sub-prefix
>> hijackings would be still possible if invalids are accepted and
>> this would go against the purpose of RPKI validation. However? I
>> think the text should state how invalids should be dropped in
>> order not to trigger loosing connectivity.
>
> If I understand correctly what you are willing to say, no proposal
> should have on the text a way Autonomous Systems must treat
> announcements they receive as it's their own decision. Some may
> decide to drop what is recommended and some might just lower
> preference at their own discretion right ?
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
>> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sylvain,
>>
>> El 5/11/19 6:11, "Sylvain Baya" <abscoco at gmail.com
>> <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Hope you are doing well.
>>
>> Please comments below (inline)...
>>
>>
>>
>> Le mardi 5 novembre 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
>> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> a ?crit?:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> [...]
>> This is the list of new policy proposals (note that the
>> numbering can be modified by the staff when published).
>>
>> 1) AFPUB-2019-IPv6-002-DRAFT01: "Adjusting IPv6 PA Policy"
>> Solves a discrepancy between IPv6 PI and IPv6 PA
>> regarding the announcement of aggregated addressing space.
>>
>> 2) AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01: "Chairs Elections Process"
>> Including in the CPM a detailed procedure for the chair's
>> elections.
>>
>> 3) AFPUB-2019-GEN-004-DRAFT01: "M&A Resource Transfers"
>> Including in the CPM intra-RIR M&A for ASN, IPv4 and IPv6.
>>
>> 4) AFPUB-2019-GEN-005-DRAFT01: "Impact Analysis is Mandatory"
>>
>> 5) AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01: "RPKI ROAs for Unallocated
>> and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space"
>>
>> ...i like this one. I recall that i was thinking ok how to
>> solve the problem of 'Internet resources
>>
>> squatting'. I was naively imagining a solution where a RIR
>> will have to flag all their
>>
>> unallocated|unassigned Address Space ; via a particular
>> attribute of the IRR (Internet Routing
>>
>> Registry). Now i understand that i was not too dummy or even
>> crazy :-)
>>
>> Oh no! In that case the crazy one is me :-) !
>>
>> Please send me your DPP (Draft Policy Proposal), i can not
>> wait more to review it ;-)
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> I was thinking in sending them in order (2 more today, 2 more
>> tomorrow), but as you have interest in this one. My next one
>> will be this one, I promise! Give me first a few minutes to
>> respond to all the emails I got till now ?
>>
>> Shalom,
>>
>> --sb.
>>
>> Updated policy proposals:
>>
>> a) AFPUB-2019-ASN-001-DRAFT03: "Multihoming not required
>> for ASN"
>>
>> b) AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT02: "IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource
>> Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)"
>>
>> c) AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT04: "Abuse Contact Policy Update"
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jordi
>> @jordipalet
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>>
>> ?Best Regards !
>>
>> Sylvain BAYA
>>
>> ?cmNOG's Co-Founder & Coordinator
>>
>> ?(+237) 677005341
>>
>> ?PO Box 13107 YAOUNDE / CAMEROON
>>
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm]
>>
>> ?abscoco2001 [AT yahoo DOT fr]
>>
>> http://www.cmnog.cm
>>
>> https://cmnog.wordpress.com
>>
>> ?************************
>>
>> ?#?LASAINTEBIBLE(?#?Romains15:33):"Que LE ?#?DIEU de ?#?Paix
>> soit avec vous tous!?#?Amen!"
>>
>> ?#?MaPri?re est que tu naisses de nouveau.
>>
>> ?#?Chr?tiennement
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ?? Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants
>> d?eau, Ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s toi, ? DIEU! ? (Psaumes 42 :2)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing
>> list RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be
>> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be
>> for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and
>> further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
>> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even
>> if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
>> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
>> copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense,
>> so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> communication and delete it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
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End of RPD Digest, Vol 160, Issue 9
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