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[rpd] new policy proposal: AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01: "Chairs Elections Process"

Daniel Yakmut yakmutd at googlemail.com
Sun Nov 10 12:18:58 UTC 2019


If I must suggest wordings, I will prefer to see something like
" Diversity is strongly encourage in nominating/electing Co-chairs"

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 1:13 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <
muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:


> @Daniel,what words can you rather suggest for that section of the clause?

>

> Would you rather see that section providing guidance toward bringing more

> inclusion in the process?

>

> Caleb Ogundele

>

> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 12:06 PM Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>> Hi Jordi,

>>

>> What I mean explicitly, is that we should not have the statement "

>> co-chairs cannot come from the same country" as part of criteria for

>> electing co-chairs.

>>

>> Co-chairs can come from the same country as long as they are doing the

>> job.

>>

>> The proposal should not go forward with that wording.

>>

>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:19 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <

>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Daniel,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I’m not sure to see your point. Chairs are not just chairing a session.

>>> They are chairing the full PDP process, and we have two chairs to ensure a

>>> more balanced performance of the WG, “load-sharing”, better management, and

>>> fairer decisions.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I think what you’re saying is also matched with the text that I’ve

>>> proposed in this email. In principle chairs should not be elected from the

>>> same country, unless there is no alternative candidates. Once elected, both

>>> of them can remain.

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Or do you have any alternative explicit wording?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 9/11/19 7:47, "Daniel Yakmut" <yakmutd at googlemail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> A quick question is "are Co-Chair tied to Country?" I thought part of

>>> this community is some form of universality, meaning as long as the

>>> person(s) understand and are doing the job well, country specific should

>>> not matter. Else we may be trading competency for representative.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Therefore, I will disagree with inserting that co-chairs cannot come

>>> from the same country. Rather can we have other implicit ways that could

>>> possibly ensure that co-chairs from the same country are not chairing at

>>> the same time.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Simply,

>>>

>>> Daniel

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 7:35 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <

>>> rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi Fernando,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I see your point, which has been also expressed by Pascal, and after

>>> thinking again I believe I could agree with an alternative solution and

>>> simplification of that specific paragraph.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Note that I’m responding by myself, so my co-author should agree if both

>>> of you accept this alternative, as well as the rest of the community, so

>>> take it as tentative wording:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Instead of the actual:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates, in which case

>>> one of the chairs will cease in their position at the following election

>>> process (following year), either because their term has come to an end or

>>> by agreement among the two chairs, failing which the chair who has held the

>>> position the longest will automatically cease in their position.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> So, will you agree on this? others?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 8/11/19 16:49, "Fernando Frediani" <fhfrediani at gmail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hello

>>>

>>> I have to agree that I am also not comfortable the way text is 3.3.1

>>> with regards chair of the same country. While I agree they should not come

>>> form the same country as much as possible I recognized there are exceptions

>>> where they have to be and no one should be forced out if they became a

>>> chair already.

>>>

>>> There are two situations where I believe 2 chairs from the same country

>>> may co-exist:

>>> 1) When there are no other acceptable candidates from other countries

>>> (eg: 1 single candidate form the same country as the current chair or all

>>> candidates from the same country of the chair)

>>> 2) When there is a vacant position that AfricNic Board has to fulfill

>>> temporarily.

>>>

>>> With regards the traveling expenses mentioned I don't think they should

>>> be in the PDP. While I believe the RIR should always cover that given the

>>> importance of the role to the RIR community it is discretionary and up to

>>> them to decide that. Furthermore I don't think having this in the PDP can

>>> oblige the RIR to do anyway as it's a administrative decision.

>>>

>>> I agree with section 3.3.2 in regards the minimum time to be able to

>>> participate in the election process. It brings a lot of value into the

>>> process and avoid big issues of non-related people influencing the process.

>>> This part for me is one of the most important of the proposal.

>>>

>>> Fernando

>>>

>>> On 08/11/2019 04:33, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi Pascal,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Thanks for your inputs, let me answer below, in-line.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 8/11/19 4:32, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hello this is a great proposal but I have some concerns about some of

>>> the newly adopted procedures.

>>> In section 3.3.1 I don't think it will be right for a chair who has held

>>> the position longest to vacate the position in a scenario where the

>>> cochairs originate from the same country in extreme scenarios. While we aim

>>> to select algorithms to minimize the possibility of a vacant seat at any

>>> point in time we should also try not to break the wheel of experience here.

>>> A longer serving cochair will be more conversant with the affairs of the

>>> PDWG in most cases so I think vacating his or her seat won't be ideal.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è While I could agree here in your view, I think that there must be a

>>> balance in giving opportunity to new people. The text already gives the

>>> opportunity to the chairs to take a decision on that. Note also, that if

>>> the chair that has been longer time in the position hasn’t exceeded the two

>>> consecutive terms, he still can submit his candidacy for that election, so

>>> it is giving the voice to the community about that. On the other hand, we

>>> may have a longer time in the position chair that is not performing well

>>> (even if it has more experience) so the community has a way to not vote him

>>> again. It is a difficult balance. I will like to hear from you and others

>>> specific suggestions about this point.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Secondly while we aim to sanitize the motives for people contesting for

>>> cochair I don't think a little stipend for co-chairs will do any damage to

>>> the election process for me I think a per sitting allowance or stipend

>>> should be adopted if not already so.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è AFRINIC (I believe) support the chairs in their traveling expenses to

>>> the meeting and from time to time to other RIR meetings. Is not that

>>> sufficient? Otherwise, what you will suggest? Should we have that (even for

>>> traveling expenses) in the PDP?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> section 3.3.2 will disenfranchise voters. It's possible a deprived voter

>>> might not be active in the rpd but has been abreast with the happenings of

>>> the community. Therefore are we going to say we cannot allow that voter to

>>> cast his or her vote?. A deprived voter might be attending a PPM for the

>>> first time and will feel disenfranchised because I believe the presentation

>>> of the candidates is also an incentive to motivate or give voters an idea

>>> of their portfolio which I think is enough to orientate a newbie attendee

>>> if I may use that phrase .

>>>

>>> Without elaborating or handling some of this concerns I think this

>>> proposal cannot be accepted as it is.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è Note that I’m asking only for having been in the RPD list for 6

>>> months. I’m not asking for demonstrating “activity”. I my opinion this will

>>> fulfil the case you’re indicating in your first case.

>>>

>>> è Regarding a newcomer participating as voter, I’ve seen in many RIR

>>> meetings, including AFRINIC, a bunch (even hundreds) of local students,

>>> participating for the first time as guest. 99% of those participants will

>>> never participate again in AFRINIC, RPD, etc. Hundreds of them can vote for

>>> a specific candidate, without knowing at all nothing about the candidate or

>>> the PDP, for example, just because the candidate is local. Of course, in

>>> some cases that candidate can be a very valid one, however nothing ensures

>>> it and further this is a distortion of the process and very discriminatory

>>> towards the other candidates. For example, the other candidates can say

>>> “I’ve organized a remote hub so the people can participate in a remote

>>> meeting room” (and get there hundreds of people that possibly will support

>>> that candidacy). I think those newcomers can perfectly understand, if they

>>> are interested in a continued AFRINIC participation, shy those rules are

>>> done and this specific point will not, for that, feel uncomfortable or

>>> decide not to continue participating because that, in the other way around

>>> “next time I will be voting”. Is like when you need to have 18 years to

>>> vote. Reason for that is that you have some degree of “adult thinking, life

>>> experience, public policy understanding, etc.”; here we are saying your

>>> experience to be able to participate is having been there for a few months.

>>>

>>> è Note that a participant in the meeting if really interested in

>>> AFRINIC, has been able to be in the RPD list much more time ahead the

>>> meeting, so nothing forbids him to actually participate.

>>>

>>> è Last but not least, the way that electronic voting is organized is

>>> based on using the RPD list as the electoral census. NOBODY will vote

>>> “on-site”, the election is done BEFORE the meeting.

>>>

>>> è As said, happy to heard inputs on those specific points (and in

>>> general in all the proposal, of course!):

>>>

>>>

>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hello.

>>>

>>> The text of the proposal is well written and I believe brings value to

>>> the election process with control mechanisms to ensure neutrality and

>>> balance of the chosen persons.

>>> One important point I highlight is that staff when implementing this

>>> make sure a trustable electronic system is used to ensure one vote by

>>> participant and to avoid fraud. I guess something about that will be

>>> contained in the impact analysis that will come.

>>>

>>> Fernando

>>>

>>> On 05/11/2019 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi all,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> As with the previous ones, I'm attaching our proposal PDF, already submitted, so the community can start commenting in case the publication by AFRINIC is delayed.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Thanks in advance for any inputs!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> **********************************************

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>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

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>

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