[rpd] new policy proposal: AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01: "Chairs Elections Process"

[Daniel Yakmut]

If I must suggest wordings, I will prefer to see something like
" Diversity is strongly encourage in nominating/electing Co-chairs"

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 1:13 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <
muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:


> @Daniel,what words can you rather suggest for that section of the clause?

>

> Would you rather see that section providing guidance toward bringing more

> inclusion in the process?

>

> Caleb Ogundele

>

> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 12:06 PM Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>> Hi Jordi,

>>

>> What I mean explicitly, is that we should not have the statement "

>> co-chairs cannot come from the same country" as part of criteria for

>> electing co-chairs.

>>

>> Co-chairs can come from the same country as long as they are doing the

>> job.

>>

>> The proposal should not go forward with that wording.

>>

>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:19 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <

>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Daniel,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I’m not sure to see your point. Chairs are not just chairing a session.

>>> They are chairing the full PDP process, and we have two chairs to ensure a

>>> more balanced performance of the WG, “load-sharing”, better management, and

>>> fairer decisions.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I think what you’re saying is also matched with the text that I’ve

>>> proposed in this email. In principle chairs should not be elected from the

>>> same country, unless there is no alternative candidates. Once elected, both

>>> of them can remain.

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Or do you have any alternative explicit wording?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 9/11/19 7:47, "Daniel Yakmut" <yakmutd at googlemail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> A quick question is "are Co-Chair tied to Country?" I thought part of

>>> this community is some form of universality, meaning as long as the

>>> person(s) understand and are doing the job well, country specific should

>>> not matter. Else we may be trading competency for representative.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Therefore, I will disagree with inserting that co-chairs cannot come

>>> from the same country. Rather can we have other implicit ways that could

>>> possibly ensure that co-chairs from the same country are not chairing at

>>> the same time.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Simply,

>>>

>>> Daniel

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 7:35 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <

>>> rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi Fernando,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I see your point, which has been also expressed by Pascal, and after

>>> thinking again I believe I could agree with an alternative solution and

>>> simplification of that specific paragraph.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Note that I’m responding by myself, so my co-author should agree if both

>>> of you accept this alternative, as well as the rest of the community, so

>>> take it as tentative wording:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Instead of the actual:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> “Both chairs can’t be from the same country, except in exceptional

>>> situations where there are no other acceptable candidates, in which case

>>> one of the chairs will cease in their position at the following election

>>> process (following year), either because their term has come to an end or

>>> by agreement among the two chairs, failing which the chair who has held the

>>> position the longest will automatically cease in their position.”

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> So, will you agree on this? others?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 8/11/19 16:49, "Fernando Frediani" <fhfrediani at gmail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hello

>>>

>>> I have to agree that I am also not comfortable the way text is 3.3.1

>>> with regards chair of the same country. While I agree they should not come

>>> form the same country as much as possible I recognized there are exceptions

>>> where they have to be and no one should be forced out if they became a

>>> chair already.

>>>

>>> There are two situations where I believe 2 chairs from the same country

>>> may co-exist:

>>> 1) When there are no other acceptable candidates from other countries

>>> (eg: 1 single candidate form the same country as the current chair or all

>>> candidates from the same country of the chair)

>>> 2) When there is a vacant position that AfricNic Board has to fulfill

>>> temporarily.

>>>

>>> With regards the traveling expenses mentioned I don't think they should

>>> be in the PDP. While I believe the RIR should always cover that given the

>>> importance of the role to the RIR community it is discretionary and up to

>>> them to decide that. Furthermore I don't think having this in the PDP can

>>> oblige the RIR to do anyway as it's a administrative decision.

>>>

>>> I agree with section 3.3.2 in regards the minimum time to be able to

>>> participate in the election process. It brings a lot of value into the

>>> process and avoid big issues of non-related people influencing the process.

>>> This part for me is one of the most important of the proposal.

>>>

>>> Fernando

>>>

>>> On 08/11/2019 04:33, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi Pascal,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Thanks for your inputs, let me answer below, in-line.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> El 8/11/19 4:32, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribió:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hello this is a great proposal but I have some concerns about some of

>>> the newly adopted procedures.

>>> In section 3.3.1 I don't think it will be right for a chair who has held

>>> the position longest to vacate the position in a scenario where the

>>> cochairs originate from the same country in extreme scenarios. While we aim

>>> to select algorithms to minimize the possibility of a vacant seat at any

>>> point in time we should also try not to break the wheel of experience here.

>>> A longer serving cochair will be more conversant with the affairs of the

>>> PDWG in most cases so I think vacating his or her seat won't be ideal.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è While I could agree here in your view, I think that there must be a

>>> balance in giving opportunity to new people. The text already gives the

>>> opportunity to the chairs to take a decision on that. Note also, that if

>>> the chair that has been longer time in the position hasn’t exceeded the two

>>> consecutive terms, he still can submit his candidacy for that election, so

>>> it is giving the voice to the community about that. On the other hand, we

>>> may have a longer time in the position chair that is not performing well

>>> (even if it has more experience) so the community has a way to not vote him

>>> again. It is a difficult balance. I will like to hear from you and others

>>> specific suggestions about this point.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Secondly while we aim to sanitize the motives for people contesting for

>>> cochair I don't think a little stipend for co-chairs will do any damage to

>>> the election process for me I think a per sitting allowance or stipend

>>> should be adopted if not already so.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è AFRINIC (I believe) support the chairs in their traveling expenses to

>>> the meeting and from time to time to other RIR meetings. Is not that

>>> sufficient? Otherwise, what you will suggest? Should we have that (even for

>>> traveling expenses) in the PDP?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> section 3.3.2 will disenfranchise voters. It's possible a deprived voter

>>> might not be active in the rpd but has been abreast with the happenings of

>>> the community. Therefore are we going to say we cannot allow that voter to

>>> cast his or her vote?. A deprived voter might be attending a PPM for the

>>> first time and will feel disenfranchised because I believe the presentation

>>> of the candidates is also an incentive to motivate or give voters an idea

>>> of their portfolio which I think is enough to orientate a newbie attendee

>>> if I may use that phrase .

>>>

>>> Without elaborating or handling some of this concerns I think this

>>> proposal cannot be accepted as it is.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> è Note that I’m asking only for having been in the RPD list for 6

>>> months. I’m not asking for demonstrating “activity”. I my opinion this will

>>> fulfil the case you’re indicating in your first case.

>>>

>>> è Regarding a newcomer participating as voter, I’ve seen in many RIR

>>> meetings, including AFRINIC, a bunch (even hundreds) of local students,

>>> participating for the first time as guest. 99% of those participants will

>>> never participate again in AFRINIC, RPD, etc. Hundreds of them can vote for

>>> a specific candidate, without knowing at all nothing about the candidate or

>>> the PDP, for example, just because the candidate is local. Of course, in

>>> some cases that candidate can be a very valid one, however nothing ensures

>>> it and further this is a distortion of the process and very discriminatory

>>> towards the other candidates. For example, the other candidates can say

>>> “I’ve organized a remote hub so the people can participate in a remote

>>> meeting room” (and get there hundreds of people that possibly will support

>>> that candidacy). I think those newcomers can perfectly understand, if they

>>> are interested in a continued AFRINIC participation, shy those rules are

>>> done and this specific point will not, for that, feel uncomfortable or

>>> decide not to continue participating because that, in the other way around

>>> “next time I will be voting”. Is like when you need to have 18 years to

>>> vote. Reason for that is that you have some degree of “adult thinking, life

>>> experience, public policy understanding, etc.”; here we are saying your

>>> experience to be able to participate is having been there for a few months.

>>>

>>> è Note that a participant in the meeting if really interested in

>>> AFRINIC, has been able to be in the RPD list much more time ahead the

>>> meeting, so nothing forbids him to actually participate.

>>>

>>> è Last but not least, the way that electronic voting is organized is

>>> based on using the RPD list as the electoral census. NOBODY will vote

>>> “on-site”, the election is done BEFORE the meeting.

>>>

>>> è As said, happy to heard inputs on those specific points (and in

>>> general in all the proposal, of course!):

>>>

>>>

>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hello.

>>>

>>> The text of the proposal is well written and I believe brings value to

>>> the election process with control mechanisms to ensure neutrality and

>>> balance of the chosen persons.

>>> One important point I highlight is that staff when implementing this

>>> make sure a trustable electronic system is used to ensure one vote by

>>> participant and to avoid fraud. I guess something about that will be

>>> contained in the impact analysis that will come.

>>>

>>> Fernando

>>>

>>> On 05/11/2019 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi all,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> As with the previous ones, I'm attaching our proposal PDF, already submitted, so the community can start commenting in case the publication by AFRINIC is delayed.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Thanks in advance for any inputs!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>> Jordi

>>>

>>> @jordipalet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> **********************************************

>>>

>>> IPv4 is over

>>>

>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>>>

>>> http://www.theipv6company.com

>>>

>>> The IPv6 Company

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>>

>>> RPD mailing list

>>>

>>> RPD at afrinic.net

>>>

>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>>

>>>

>>> **********************************************

>>> IPv4 is over

>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>>> http://www.theipv6company.com

>>> The IPv6 Company

>>>

>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>>> communication and delete it.

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>>

>>> RPD mailing list

>>>

>>> RPD at afrinic.net

>>>

>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list

>>> RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>>

>>>

>>> **********************************************

>>> IPv4 is over

>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>>> http://www.theipv6company.com

>>> The IPv6 Company

>>>

>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>>> communication and delete it.

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> RPD mailing list

>>> RPD at afrinic.net

>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>>

>>>

>>> **********************************************

>>> IPv4 is over

>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>>> http://www.theipv6company.com

>>> The IPv6 Company

>>>

>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>>> communication and delete it.

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>> RPD mailing list

>> RPD at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>>

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20191110/e2d03135/attachment-0001.html>