[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

Hi John,

Let's make sure I understood your point:
"One clause that I would be quite happy with is something like "Once
you have sold IPv4 address space, you are not eligible to get any from
Afrinic again", instead of the 12 month period."

We have this right now for intra-RIR:

5.7.3.2 Source entities will not be eligible to receive any further IPv4 address allocations or assignments from AFRINIC for a period of 12 months after a transfer approval.

5.7.3.3 Source entities must not have received a transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources from AFRINIC for the 12 months prior to the approval of transfer request. This restriction excludes mergers and acquisitions transfers.

-> If I got you correctly, you mean:
5.7.3.2 Source entities will not be any more eligible to receive any further IPv4 address allocations or assignments from AFRINIC.

Is that your point? I think I will agree with that, as it is a good protection to avoid anyone getting addresses holding them for 12 months, and then selling those and asking for more (which or course at some point will not be possible one AFRINIC run out).

Let's make sure and check what other participants believe.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 14/7/19 20:41, "John Hay" <john at sanren.ac.za> escribió:

    Hi SOUAD,
    
    Even with Jordi's proposals the two RIRs will be part the transfer.
    The one to release the resources and the other one to accept it. Both
    of them must be satisfied that all policy conditions were met,
    otherwise the transfer will not happen.
    
    Leasing is an interesting idea, but I think it will lower the value,
    so the seller gets less money and have less incentive to free up the
    address space and then sit with a useless asset in a few years. Are
    you going to lease in one direction (Afrinic -> elsewhere) and buy in
    the other direction (elsewhere -> Afrinic)? Remember IPv4 addresses
    have temporary value.
    
    I'm not sure you will be able to convince the other RIRs to accept new
    policies with your conditions. They already approved transfer policies
    with less restrictions, why would they want to go through a whole
    process again to restrict it? I don't think ARIN mind that the
    majority of transfers will be away from them. I think all of them knew
    that even before they ratified their transfer policy.
    
    Even if we adopt a bi-directional transfer policy with none of the
    extra restrictions Jordi mentioned, I think relatively little address
    space will be transferred out of Afrinic. The majority will come in
    because the ISPs that really want to connect more and more people in
    Africa, will need it.
    
    The legacy IPv4 space in Afrinic is relatively small compared to what
    is in ARIN. The allocation was also not really the same. In the USA
    the organisations that started with what became the internet (long
    before ARIN) were just allocated a /8, with no consideration about
    usage. When organisations in Africa started to request IPv4 space, in
    the early 1990's, they were mostly allocated a /16 or smaller block.
    Most in South Africa, at least, were universities and the early ISPs.
    The universities still exists and their ip address needs have grown,
    so some have requested extra space from Afrinic. Most of the early
    ISPs are either still there, sometimes with a different name or has
    been merged to form bigger ISPs. Their ip address space needs will not
    shrink, it will just grow.
    
    Yes, I guess there will be some transfer from Afrinic organisations.
    There might be some that say got a /16 and then realise that they can
    live with less. They will then have to renumber to use only a part of
    it, and could then sell the rest.
    
    One clause that I would be quite happy with is something like "Once
    you have sold IPv4 address space, you are not eligible to get any from
    Afrinic again", instead of the 12 month period.
    
    Regards
    
    John
    
    
    
    On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 at 18:32, SOUAD ABIDI <fs_abidi at esi.dz> wrote:
    >
    > Gregoire,
    >
    > If you define the benefit is money or power, I already said it, Afrinic takes no money and makes no approval, so the answer is nothing, its role will be to supervise the contract and that everything works well.
    > For the region, members can lease the extra block they have and make money behind, so we will avoid the undertable transfer.
    >
    > The question is as Jordi said, will we be able to convince other RIRs to adopt this policy to ensure the bidirectional transfer? I think each region is interested that its resources stay for its members and don't run out from the region from one hand , and benefit from other regions'  resources  from another hand , to balance between the two ,IPv4  leasing  is an option to consider !
    >
    > Regards.
    > Souad
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Le sam. 13 juil. 2019 à 19:29, Gregoire Ehoumi <gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr> a écrit :
    >>
    >> Souad,
    >>
    >> You did not reply to my question.
    >>
    >> Again, how does this leasing benefit AfriNIC or our region?
    >>
    >> --Gregoire
    >>
    >> ------ Original message------
    >> From: SOUAD ABIDI
    >> Date: Sat, Jul 13, 2019 5:19 AM
    >> To: Gregoire Ehoumi;
    >> Cc: AfriNIC List;
    >> Subject:Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
    >>
    >> Jordi,
    >> I guess ,when it will no IPv4 remain in other regions(which is soon the case) ,nobody will negociate the conditions of  the pool's owner (Africa).
    >>
    >> Gregoire,
    >>
    >> If we notice that our resources run out from the region after the transfer , we can bring them back to Africa (afriNIC will not accept the renewal of the contract between the seller and the buyer).
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Souad
    >>
    >> Le ven. 12 juil. 2019 ?? 20:37, Gregoire Ehoumi <gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr> a ??crit :
    >>>
    >>> Hi Souad,
    >>>
    >>> How will this type of contract benefit AfriNIC and our region?
    >>>
    >>> --Gregoire
    >>>
    >>> ------ Original message------
    >>> From: SOUAD ABIDI
    >>> Date: Fri, Jul 12, 2019 6:50 AM
    >>> To: AfriNIC List;
    >>> Cc:
    >>> Subject:[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
    >>>
    >>> Hello,
    >>>
    >>> As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may run out from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in the policy - As some people argue.
    >>> Here what I suggest :
    >>>
    >>> ??         Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and the buyer up to 5  years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC  will be the 3rd part of the          deal .
    >>>
    >>> ??         AfriNIC takes no money  and  makes no  approval.
    >>>
    >>> ??         The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.
    >>>
    >>> ??         The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts (afriNIC-seller-buyer)
    >>>
    >>> So buy adopting  this approach and  if we notice that our resources are running out from our region, we can decide to bring them back and the companies do not renew the contract with .
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Best regards.
    >>>
    >>> Souad
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > RPD mailing list
    > RPD at afrinic.net
    > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
    
    _______________________________________________
    RPD mailing list
    RPD at afrinic.net
    https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
    



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.