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[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

Wed Jul 3 22:27:21 UTC 2019

Hi Emem,

Just to make it clear once more.

I’m very happy and we all should be, if we get Larus and many other organizations willing to sponsor people to participate.

However, in an open and transparent way. They don’t need to be “directly” in touch with all the fellows, so they can agree with Afrinic on the selections process, Afrinic do that for them and all them (even from different sponsors), get together under the very open and transparent rules, not with private meetings with the sponsors.

I’m sure we all can agree that this will be a fairer way, and the sponsors will be recognized the same way by the community, even much better, because nobody can then even be suspicious about any bad intentions from the sponsors.




El 3/7/19 23:25, "Emem William" <dwizard65 at> escribió:

Dear all,

I am totally amazed at some people's way of reasoning when tackling critical issues.

Larus foundation sponsored more persons to attend AIS '19, Kampala. She did not bring Chinese people to the meeting instead she sponsored fellow Africans to attend. She did not just stop at that she went out of her way to help intimate the first timers on what policy discussions is all about and the possible proposals that might be discussed (as contained in the said documents) so as to enhance effective participation.

Instead of being appreciative, some Africans are still coming out to fabricate baseless accusations against the same foundation. It is high time we started pondering on whatsoever we want to say before voicing it out to avoid making unfounded statements with confidence which might actually render our intelligent quotients questionable

Is it true that AFRINIC seeks to encourage people's participation in policy discussions meetings??

If yes, does it mean AFRINIC wishes that new particpants turn up to get embarrassed by old members who have been around for sometimes and have more experience??

If no, I suggest AFRINIC should devise how to familiarize first timers with the nitty-gritty of policy discussions prior to the commencement of next meeting.

Above all, LARUS FOUNDATION deserve accolade for sponsoring a good number of AFRICAN persons to Kampala to participate in the last meeting.


Warm regards,


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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Legacy holders? (Noah)
2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
(Taiwo Oyewande)


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 23:03:30 +0300
From: Noah <noah at>
To: Owen DeLong <owen at>
Cc: AfriNIC List <rpd at>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Legacy holders?
<CAEqgTWaOMiSUiGWXajVenz0s1qzqDbV2udTtccrpkGwO-8QwLA at>
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On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 6:21 AM Owen DeLong <owen at> wrote:

> Do they enforce this requirement in countries where no such license is

> required?


I dont know of any country with no telecommunications regulatory authority
in Africa but from my personal experience, I have found it rather great
that AfriNIC members services asks for such licenses since they are
mandated with the management of Internet Number Resources in Africa.

> Do they track the licensing requirements of each of the nations in the

> service region?



I dont have an answer to this question but perhaps if necessary they would.

> That sounds like a lot of overhead to me.


Not really....

> Owen



> On Jul 2, 2019, at 05:04 , Noah <noah at> wrote:


> Andrew


> We all know what clause 6.1 says but I can assure you that Madhvi's team

> wont play until you prove that you have a license from the local regulator

> if you intend to build an Internet Infrastructure (ISP) on continent and

> need resources for the case of an LIR.


> This additional scrutiny don't have to be spelled out on the Bylaws but

> they are prudent for staff to ensure they don't allocate/assign space to a

> briefcase LIR.


> Noah



> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 09:43 Andrew Alston, <Andrew.Alston at>

> wrote:


>> Heh ? again ? there is no requirement to hold a license ? anywhere.




>> Again ? clause 6.1 does not demand a license ? it demands the member of

>> AfriNIC is providing services on the continent ? it doesn?t say what

>> services ? it doesn?t say that it has to be providing those services in the

>> country of domicile ? it doesn?t say the services provided have to be

>> related to the resources AfriNIC grants it ? it doesn?t say that you can?t

>> use the resources from AfriNIC off continent and use a /32 in Africa for

>> that matter.




>> Heh ? there are MANY reasons for a company to be domiciled in one country

>> and conducting business in another ? so ? I find this information a little

>> spurious




>> Andrew




>> *From:* Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at>

>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 00:21

>> *To:* AfriNIC List <rpd at>

>> *Subject:* Re: [rpd] Legacy holders?




>> In message <

>> CAEqgTWYs+9b2c4pP6cBAkQAOFXoi+rfOTqohzUz39LaQ13DZmg at>

>> Noah <noah at> wrote:


>> >LIR membership 101 requires that one has a business license and another

>> >license from a local communications regulatory authority of the country

>> >where they are requesting space from. Member services team from AfriNIC

>> >always require this before space is allocated/assigned to an entity.


>> That's really very interesting. I didn't know any of this before now.

>> (I am learning more and more, every day, by paying attention to the

>> postings

>> on this list!)


>> Based on what you just said, I took it upon myself to try to find the

>> web sites for the local communications regulatory authority of a couple

>> of the specific national jurisdictions that Afrinic serves, and that are

>> of special interest to me, i.e. Seychelles and Mauritius.


>> I think that I found both, but it appears that of the two, only the one

>> for Mauritius has an actual published online list of "License Holders":




>> I also took it upon myself to try to see to what degree the list of

>> "Mauritius" members of Afrinic corresponded with the list of Mauritius

>> communications authority license holders.


>> Of the thirty one (31) "Mauritius" members of Afrinic listed here:




>> Twelve (12) of them are listed as Mauritius communications authority

>> license holders. The remaining ninteen (19) are not so listed. These

>> are as follows:


>> Leal Communication and informatics ltd

>> Mauritius Computing Services Ltd

>> Millenium Outsourcing Ltd

>> MXIT Lifestyle International Ltd

>> Mauritius Freeport Development Company Ltd

>> Liquid Telecommunications Operations Limited

>> SEACOM Limited

>> West Indian Ocean Cable Company

>> Pamoja Africa

>> La Sentinelle Ltd


>> Internet Direct Ltd

>> Ireland Blyth Informatics LTD

>> University of Mauritius

>> Forcepoint Mauritius

>> Mauritius Internet Exchange Point

>> Woodynet Ltd

>> African Network Operators' Group (AFNOG)

>> African Network Information Center - ( AfriNIC Ltd. )


>> I would guess that it is quite entirely reasonable that those last two are

>> not registered at communications companies within Mauritius, because I

>> doubt that either one is actually providing commercial communications

>> services of any kind within Mauritius. The rest I'm not so sure about.


>> At present, I know of no way in which any "outsider" could determine

>> which, if any, of the twenty four (24) "Seychelles" members of Afrinic

>> are or are not licensed communications providers within that country.


>> I'm not trying to make any particular point here. I just wanted to share

>> this info with everyone, in case folks other than me might also find it

>> interesting.



>> Regards,

>> rfg



>> _______________________________________________

>> RPD mailing list

>> RPD at


>> _______________________________________________

>> RPD mailing list

>> RPD at



> _______________________________________________

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 21:05:18 +0100
From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at>
To: hkariuki at
Cc: community-discuss at, rpd at
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
Message-ID: <1BC9547D-56E9-4DF5-A0CD-025B4F0DD494 at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at wrote:


> Taiwo,

> I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions.

> Regards,

> Hellen



>> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:

>> Hi all,

>> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the

>> policies to be discussed.

>> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students

>> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new

>> members who are fresh in the policy development process.

>> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the

>> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every

>> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.

>> Cheers.

>> Taiwo O

>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston

>>> <Andrew.Alston at> wrote:

>>>> Wafa,

>>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out

>>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also

>>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the

>>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things

>>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in

>>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the

>>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and

>>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.

>>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am

>>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also

>>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?

>>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I

>>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but

>>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of

>>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not

>>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care

>>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we

>>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.

>>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening

>>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF



>>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money

>>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say

>>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to

>>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the

>>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent

>>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be

>>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it

>>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we

>>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization

>>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation

>>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the

>>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.

>>>> That is called hypocrisy.

>>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with

>>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and

>>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I

>>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the

>>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,

>>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t

>>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was

>>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see

>>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we

>>>> don?t like the individual doing it?

>>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear

>>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I

>>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front

>>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I

>>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is

>>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his

>>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on

>>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same

>>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I

>>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if

>>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position

>>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great

>>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it

>>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.

>>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their

>>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby

>>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people

>>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for

>>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic

>>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their

>>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.

>>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?

>>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here

>>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on

>>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and

>>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to

>>>> do with the content or the policy.

>>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite

>>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu

>>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the

>>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that

>>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for

>>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I

>>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve

>>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own

>>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at

>>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal

>>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

>>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact

>>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left

>>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.

>>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?

>>>> and


>>>> Thanks

>>>> Andrew

>>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at>

>>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30

>>>> TO: community-discuss at

>>>> CC: rpd at

>>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>>>> Hi

>>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus

>>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in

>>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC

>>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:


>>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation

>>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG

>>>> participants interventions on the proposals.

>>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these

>>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at

>>>> the PPM and after....

>>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual

>>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to

>>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions

>>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of

>>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.

>>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also

>>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

>>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough

>>>> consensus process.

>>>> Section 6

>>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough

>>>> consensus.

>>>> Section 7

>>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be

>>>> rough consensus

>>>> My African fellows,

>>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process

>>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was

>>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand

>>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made

>>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..

>>>> The real education package is as below:

>>>> =====

>>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC


>>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)


>>>> AFRINIC constitution


>>>> Registration Service Agreement


>>>> AFRINIC policy manual


>>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM




>>>> Rough Consensus


>>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals


>>>> RiRs PDPs


>>>> RIR comparative policy overview


>>>> ==============

>>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

>>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.

>>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,

>>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of

>>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I

>>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

>>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of

>>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid

>>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must

>>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of

>>>> conduct.

>>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet

>>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy

>>>> development process and operations.

>>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________

>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>>>> Community-Discuss at


>>> --



>>> p:+852 29888918

>>> f:+852 29888368

>>> e:a.v.p at

>>> [1]

>>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>>> Community-Discuss at


>> Links:

>> ------

>> [1]

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at








> b


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