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[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

DANIEL NANGHAKA dndannang at gmail.com
Tue Jun 18 18:42:47 UTC 2019


Aleruchi,

We are not after making friends, we are after driving consensus on a policy
on what will work best for the sustainable internet development of Africa.

Daniel K. Nanghaka
On Jun 18, 2019 9:22 PM, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs
>       this policy now! (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>    2. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs
>       this policy now! (Lee Howard)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:14:01 +0300
> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> To: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
>         needs this policy now!
> Message-ID: <D42E9884-E2C0-41FC-BC28-079190768A8D at consulintel.es>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I really believe that in general, nobody working on RIR policies, or in
> general Internet, will have that view even if we don?t reach consensus in
> this policy.
>
>
>
> However, it will make more difficult for everyone in the region to
> increase business, or to create new business, and will not help to deploy
> IPv6.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 18/6/19 21:10, "aleruchi chuku via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net> escribi?:
>
>
>
> Paschal, the summary is simply that if we do not support this policy, it
> will result in stagnancy for the region with no "friends".
>
> Let's support this policy.
>
> It's for our good
>
>
>
> Aleruchi
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 8:54 pm, Paschal Ochang
>
> <pascosoft at gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:20:23 -0400
> From: Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net>
> To: Paschal Ochang <pascosoft at gmail.com>, "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
>         Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
>         needs this policy now!
> Message-ID: <3b989173-02a0-8268-8434-51f247f0e91d at retevia.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> I can't guarantee that more resources will flow in than out.
>
> There is a risk that people in Africa will not be willing to spend as
> much to buy addresses as people in the ARIN, RIPE-NCC, or APNIC regions.
> When an address costs $20 (and next year, maybe $30 or $40), it is hard
> to pay that where Internet access is $100 per year.
>
> An ISP who makes $10 profit per year per customer may sell some IPv4
> addresses so they can buy NAT64 equipment, and push IPv6 to the users.
> That ISP will be better off financially, and better able to support
> their customers. But that's just my opinion; I could be convinced
> otherwise.
>
> I look forward to Jordi's presentation.
>
> Lee
>
> On 6/18/19 1:52 PM, Paschal Ochang wrote:
> >
> > Based on your analogy Howard it therefore means that this policy will
> > benefit the region. The major fear is not just the balance of
> > resources flow but? more resources going out and less coming in and
> > this proposal clearly shows that this region will benefit from the
> > policy because more resources will flow in the region. Is there any
> > region that will allow only outflow of resources without inflow?? I
> > don't think so.
> > On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net
> > <mailto:lee.howard at retevia.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     This is interesting.
> >
> >     My logic goes like this:
> >
> >     1. Afrinic has a finite number of IPv4 addresses to allocate/assign.
> >
> >     2. Afrinic will run out of those addresses next year.
> >
> >     3. Once Afrinic runs out, any network needing more IPv4 addresses
> >     not be able to get them from Afrinic.
> >
> >     4. Networks needing more addresses will have choices:
> >
> >     ? 4a. Stop growing.
> >
> >     ? 4b. Use (carrier-grade) NAT. Even NAT requires some IPv4 addresses.
> >
> >     ? 4c. Try to find addresses inside Africa that are for sale.
> >
> >     Evaluating those options:
> >
> >     4a is bad for the region.
> >
> >     4b is complicated. It means buying more hardware, updating some
> >     systems. Some things don't work well with NAT. If you can deploy
> >     IPv6 and use NAT64, 464xlat, MAP-T or MAP-E, you reduce that cost,
> >     but it's still more than you spend now.
> >
> >     4c could get very expensive. Demand for IPv4 addresses has been
> >     around 25,000 /24s per year (with some much higher peaks) since
> >     Afrinic was founded.[1] The Afrinic region has about seven /8s in
> >     total.[2] If demand? continues, then more than 6M of those 112M
> >     addresses would have to be traded every year, somewhere between
> >     1/2% - 1%.
> >
> >     The question then is whether you think there are more
> >     underutilized IPv4 addresses in the U.S. or in Africa. Assuming a
> >     perfect market:
> >
> >         If Africa is more efficient, and Afrinic's transfer policy is
> >         only within the region, then the few unused IPv4 addresses
> >         will sell for a higher price than addresses elsewhere.[3]
> >
> >         If Africa is less efficient and Afrinic's transfer policy is
> >         only within the region, then unused addresses will be cheaper
> >         than elsewhere.
> >
> >         If Africa is more efficient and Afrinic has an inter-regional
> >         transfer policy, addresses will be valued more highly in
> >         Africa and addresses will come in.
> >
> >         If Africa is less efficient that the rest of the world and
> >         Afrinic has an inter-regional transfer policy, buyers in other
> >         countries will buy addresses from Africa.
> >
> >     My guess is that addresses in Africa are pretty efficiently
> >     utilized, and therefore people in Africa will have a higher need
> >     for addresses than people elsewhere, and therefore a) prices will
> >     rise, and b) addresses will tend to flow in to Africa rather than
> out.
> >
> >     Lee
> >
> >
> >     [1] https://afrinic.net/stats/ipv4
> >
> >     [2]
> >     https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf
> >     <https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf>
> >
> >     [3] https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/
> >     <https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/> easily
> >     $30 per address next year, maybe much higher
> >
> >     On 6/18/19 8:18 AM, Pascal ANDRIANISA wrote:
> >>     Thank you Jordi
> >>     if in the opposite case the remaining resources at AFRINIC will be
> transferred to other RIRs. It is true that I am not against but I do not
> agree that the current resources insufficient according to the information
> I received since AFRINIC-29 will be transferred to other RIR.
> >>     If you can guarantee this balance of resources transfer I think it
> will be logical for AFRINIC. Unlike so if AFRINIC has a lot of resources it
> will be good for the community.
> >>
> >>     Regards,
> >>
> >>     Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> >>     Webmaster i RENALA
> >>     R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A
> ctivities - [http://www.irenala.edu.mg/  |http://www.irenala.edu.mg/  ]
> >>     Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la
> Recherche Scientifique - Fiadanana
> >>     GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> >>
> >>     ----- Mail original -----
> >>     De: "rpd"<rpd at afrinic.net>  <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>     ?: "rpd"<rpd at afrinic.net>  <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>     Envoy?: Mardi 18 Juin 2019 14:55:02
> >>     Objet: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals -
> AFRINIC needs this policy now!
> >>
> >>     Hi Pascal,
> >>
> >>     Precisely what you said is the argument in favor of this policy
> proposal, not against.
> >>
> >>     AFRINIC don't have enough resources. The only way to receive
> resources is a policy that allows that other regions that are "giving up"
> resources, can get them.
> >>
> >>     This is the case for LACNIC (the same policy proposal reached
> consensus in the last meeting and yesterday the consensus decision was
> handed out to the board for the final ratification), and for AFRINIC.
> >>
> >>     AFRINIC must have an equivalent policy proposal to the ones that
> exist in the other regions, otherwise, you will not get sufficient
> resources for the continued implementation of IPv4 in the region and this
> will also be a barrier for the IPv6 deployment.
> >>
> >>     Regards,
> >>     Jordi
> >>     @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     ?El 18/6/19 10:48, "Pascal ANDRIANISA"<pascal at irenala.edu.mg>
> <mailto:pascal at irenala.edu.mg>  escribi?:
> >>
> >>          Hi Jordi,
> >>          I read the policy proposal for IPV4 Inter-RIR Transfert.
> >>          The article =>https://www.afrinic.net/
> policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal  <https://www.afrinic.net/
> policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal>
> >>            I think this is not the benefit of AFRINIC as resources are
> currently insufficient for AFRINIC.
> >>          Otherwise it is necessary to balance the transfers between RIR
> because at least the number of resources is limited to sending to other
> RIRs.
> >>
> >>          I do not support this policy for this reason, The AFRINIC's
> resources are not enough for AFRICA, why transfer them elsewhere ....
> >>
> >>          Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> >>          Webmaster i RENALA
> >>          R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning
> A ctivities - [http://www.irenala.edu.mg/  |http://www.irenala.edu.mg/  ]
> >>          Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la
> Recherche Scientifique - Fiadanana
> >>          GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> >>
> >>          ----- Mail original -----
> >>          De: "rpd"<rpd at afrinic.net>  <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>          ?: "rpd"<rpd at afrinic.net>  <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>          Envoy?: Samedi 15 Juin 2019 13:23:23
> >>          Objet: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals -
> AFRINIC needs this policy now!
> >>
> >>          Hi all,
> >>
> >>          I wonder if anyone has inputs on the policy proposals for IPv4
> Inter-RIR transfers.
> >>
> >>          https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1  <
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1>
> >>
> >>          and
> >>
> >>          https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1  <
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1>
> >>
> >>          I will be presenting both of them together on Wednesday 19th.
> If you're not in Kampala, make sure to participate remotely (
> https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely  <
> https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely>), so we can
> resolve any doubts on the spot.
> >>
> >>          This is a key issue for AFRINIC, which now is the *only* RIR
> not allowing those transfers.
> >>
> >>          AFRINIC is soon (probably around end of this year) entering in
> exhaustion phase 2, so it will become more and more difficult to obtain
> IPv4. If transfers from other regions aren't allowed, this will be an added
> difficulty for the Internet growth in the region, and increase the
> difficulties for the continued IPv6 deployment.
> >>
> >>          The region needs this policy *now*, because the implementation
> requires several months as there is a need to coordinate with the systems
> of the other RIRs, in order to ensure a transparent transfers process.
> >>
> >>          So, what is your opinion?
> >>
> >>          Regards,
> >>          Jordi
> >>          @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>          **********************************************
> >>          IPv4 is over
> >>          Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >>          http://www.theipv6company.com
> >>          The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >>          This electronic message contains information which may be
> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the
> exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and delete it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>          _______________________________________________
> >>          RPD mailing list
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> >>          https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd  <
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     **********************************************
> >>     IPv4 is over
> >>     Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >>     http://www.theipv6company.com
> >>     The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >>     This electronic message contains information which may be
> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the
> exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and delete it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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