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[rpd] Fwd: [arin-ppml] Micfo

Noah noah at
Thu May 16 08:25:37 UTC 2019

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:11 AM Owen DeLong <owen at> wrote:

> On May 16, 2019, at 00:53 , Noah <noah at> wrote:
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 10:14 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
> jordi.palet at> wrote:
>> And for that, a new policy was not needed.
> Ok, lets just "*assume*" that you don't need policy to address fraud.
> Then what is the purpose of section 12 of the ARIN (Number Resource Policy
> Manual) [1] ?
> Section 12 was written to place limits on exactly what and how ARIN could
> conduct resource reviews against organizations in the ARIN region.
> ARIN had virtually unlimited authority to do so prior to implementing
> section 12.
> Notice that NRPM12 differs from the proposal under discussion here in a
> number of significant ways:
> In no particular order, here are 5 of the most significant differences:
> 1. The legal environment is very different
> 2. The RSA is significantly different
> 3. NRPM 12 does not require ARIN to make random audits
> 4. NRPM 12 does not require ARIN to take action on complaints or to judge
> the voracity of complaints
> and go after organizations where ARIN cannot prove a lack of voracity.
> 5. NRPM 12 gives ARIN staff significantly more discretion to be merciful
> in such reviews.

> Ooooh and If a member agreement is sufficient, then why is fraud addressed
> in ARIN number resource policy?
> It isn’t really. You are thinking that NRPM creates the authority for ARIN
> to audit. In reality, NRPM 12 was passed in order to limit ARIN’s authority
> and prevent abuse.
Well, in the ARIN NRPM section 12 subsection 2b.... I read below hence the
whole debate around the fraud case which ARIN just won in the USA courts.

2.ARIN may conduct such reviews:
b. whenever ARIN has reason to believe that the resources were originally
obtained *fraudulently* or in contravention of existing policy, or

And lastly, If I may ask, how would you compare the AfriNIC RSA against the
> I wouldn’t. They are quite different documents operating in very different
> legal traditions and legal environments. I will leave any such attempt at
> comparison to the lawyers. I have no interest in it.

Yes we can leave it to the legal folk but I also agree that they are quite
different with the ARIN RSA more defined in cases of fraud and

> Owen
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