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[rpd] Factors affecting in-region utilization - way forward?
Stephen Wilcox
steve.wilcox at ixreach.com
Mon Jul 21 08:42:20 UTC 2014
On 21 July 2014 02:00, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 20, 2014, at 13:45 , Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 20 July 2014 21:46, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>> So if a service provider takes action against de-aggregates
>>> (either by blocking them off or charging for them), it puts
>>> them at a disadvantage with their competitors.
>>>
>>
>> This has always been the case, but so far its not made a difference…
>>
>>
>> 1. You don’t actually know that.
>> 2. Are you certain it isn’t the primary reason nobody is doing this (yet)?
>>
>> I would argue that it is very likely the the primary reason and thus has,
>> so far, made all the difference.
>>
>
> I mean, that providers have always either refused to accept small address
> blocks (/24 has been the "limit" for many years, before that it was RIR
> allocation boundaries or classful addressing). Those that reluctantly
> accept blocks smaller than /24 usually caveat that it won't actually work
> on the global Internet. This seems to have held back routing of small
> blocks despite there always been a subset of demand, typically from
> corporates for routing small blocks.
>
>
> Route Views contradicts you:
>
> route-views>sh ip bgp | inc /2[56789]
> *> 1.9.56.0/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4788 i
> *> 1.9.56.128/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4788 i
> *> 1.209.11.240/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 38668 i
> *> 4.31.236.64/29 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> * 4.78.192.96/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 12989 26769 i
> * 5.44.72.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 51088 i
> * 5.44.73.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 51088 i
> * 5.45.254.0/25 129.250.0.11 386 0 2914 9002
> 13238 i
> *> 5.254.117.128/25 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 39743 i
> *> 8.13.224.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.224.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.224.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.224.96/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.224.128/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.225.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.96/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.128/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.160/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.226.192/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.96/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.128/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.160/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.228.192/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.229.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.96/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.128/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.230.160/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.231.224/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.232.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.232.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.232.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.232.192/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.234.0/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.234.32/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.234.64/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.234.96/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> *> 8.13.234.128/27 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 1 i
> * 12.219.55.0/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 3549 19015 ?
> *> 14.33.166.40/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 23564 i
> *> 14.34.221.72/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 14.48.1.128/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4766 i
> *> 14.48.1.192/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4766 i
> *> 14.48.11.128/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4766 i
> *> 14.48.199.208/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 14.63.70.8/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> * 14.129.224.0/25 203.181.248.168 0 7660 2516
> 4766 9457 38676 ?
> *> 14.137.188.0/27 203.62.252.186 0 1221 9482 i
> *> 14.137.188.32/28 203.62.252.186 0 1221 9482 i
> * 20.132.2.64/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 3549 21877 i
> * 23.61.246.0/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 3462 i
> * 24.229.95.0/25 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600
> 11537 10466 32162 53913 i
> *> 27.124.36.32/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.36.64/27 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 9730 ?
> *> 27.124.36.96/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 9730 ?
> *> 27.124.37.0/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.16/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 i
> *> 27.124.37.40/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.88/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.104/29 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.128/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.160/27 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 ?
> *> 27.124.37.240/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 9498 9730 ?
> * 27.125.159.128/26
> * 27.125.159.192/26
> *> 27.255.66.32/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4766 i
> *> 27.255.66.64/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 27.255.66.80/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 27.255.66.96/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 27.255.66.128/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710
> 9002 4766 i
> *> 27.255.77.128/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 4766 i
> *> 31.169.50.24/29 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 50304 60717 i
> *> 31.172.136.0/28 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.136.16/28 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.136.32/28 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.136.48/28 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.136.96/28 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.136.112/28
> *> 31.172.136.160/27
> *> 31.172.136.192/27
> *> 31.172.137.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.137.128/25
> *> 31.172.141.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103
> 15772 24685 i
> *> 31.172.141.128/25
> * 31.186.234.0/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 3549 15570 i
> * 31.186.234.64/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516
> 3549 15570 i
> --More--
>
> And that's just the first screen full, which gets us less than 1/5th of
> the way through the address space. It also doesn't
> include /30-/32 size prefixes as I wasn't that creative with my regex foo.
>
> And I'd say that I do know it - there are no /25-32 addresses routable
> across a majority of the global internet.
>
>
> I lack adequate perspective to say for certain that these prefixes are our
> would be visible on enough routers to comprise "a majority of the global
> internet" (and so do you or anyone else, in actual fact).
>
Seriously? Owen, I know you're better than that! Troll bait perhaps but
I'll respond.
There's 30-40 full BGP feeds sent to route-views often reflecting internal
views from each ASN and not what they would necessarily propagate
downstream, each of those prefixes in your screen grab are seen behind a
single obscure path, there should be another 30-40 route entries *per
prefix* .. there's not a single tier-1 in there, not even your employer
AS6939!
You know full well these are not even remotely globally routable by
themselves. Why assert they are or might be?!
My point is that nobody is dropping /24s and I would be pretty surprised to
> see anyone start doing. I would argue that the primary reason that static
> situation has persisted is that doing so would put one at a competitive
> disadvantage. Otherwise, I know for a fact that there are a number of
> providers that would love to shrink their routing tables by dropping
> /21-/24 routes, for example. (Or at least several have expressed a desire
> to do so at one time or another).
>
/24s have been acceptable since the late 1990s.
I'm sorry but prefixes longer than /24 simply will not work on the global
Internet of 2014, you are welcome to sell transit to a customer with a
small block but we all know unless you are holding the aggregate that its
come from that its not going to work for what anyone would consider "global
internet access".
There is a possible place for longer prefixes which is for TE or connecting
separate sites through a single upstream but neither of these is the
scenario on the table.
Steve
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