[rpd] Discussion about e-voting

Tue May 13 15:17:23 UTC 2014

On May 13, 2014, at 6:02 AM, ademola at ng.lopworks.com wrote:

> Animal Farm is all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. That is not democratic.

True, but it also has no relationship whatsoever to the voting we are talking about. Each member organization still has only one vote.

> Abuse is quite easy. I lobby to represent  so many members who really care less about what is happening on Afrinic. I end up with so many voting rights. I even go further to get a few more colleagues to do the same. Collectively we can block votes in our own personal interest. That is not even far fetched.

I suppose that is possible, but I haven’t seen anything to indicate that it is actually happening or is likely to happen. Also, if this really is an issue, then wouldn’t others with competing interests have an equal ability to lobby for those same votes? Why would someone attempting to abuse the process have a greater advantage than one trying to prevent such abuse?

> One voice should be one individual and one vote.

Repeating this over and over again doesn’t make it any more rational than the firs time you said it.

Owen

> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Ademola Osindero 
> CEO/Consulting Director, 
> Lopworks Limited 
> 
> www.lopworks.com
>   Original Message  
> From: Owen DeLong
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:54 PM
> To: ademola at ng.lopworks.com
> Cc: Andrew Alston; Nii Narku Quaynor; rpd at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
> 
> 
> On May 12, 2014, at 11:39 PM, ademola at ng.lopworks.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> My point is this is easily prone to abuse and would lead to Animal Farm situation.
>> 
> 
> You are repeating yourself. Can you substantiate this in any way? What is the abuse you expect from this?
> 
> What do you mean by “Animal Farm” situation? I doubt that we will be chanting “four legs good, two legs bad” at AfriNIC meetings any time soon.
> 
>> On Andrew's example of board directorship, a Director is allowed to cast a vote "on the board of each company he or she is present". That is completely different from the director trying to cast a vote on a platform including many companies he or she represents. The later is the case of Afrinic.
> 
> Do you think that other industry organizations prohibit people who are on the boards of multiple member organizations from voting for each and every organization they represent? I have never before encountered a situation where that is the case. If AfriNIC were to adopt such a policy, it would be quite unique in my experience.
> 
> If this is such a source of abuse, then why is it not a problem in many other organizations with similar processes?
> 
> Owen
> 
>> 
>> To be lenient, it is worth reviewing the limit on proxy votes as stated by Nii Quaynor.
>> 
>> Regards, 
>> Ademola Osindero 
>> CEO/Consulting Director, 
>> Lopworks Limited 
>> 
>> www.lopworks.com
>> Original Message 
>> From: Andrew Alston
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:22 AM
>> To: Nii Narku Quaynor; ademola at ng.lopworks.com
>> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
>> 
>> Form my perspective, its a completely different issue.
>> 
>> People wearing different hats is part of life, and part of standard
>> business. Let me give you an example:
>> 
>> An individual holds directorships on multiple boards (this is very common
>> in business, and I can point to several examples).
>> 
>> That individual has the right to vote within the board structures of each
>> entity that he represents. Same thing.
>> 
>> Or, to put this another way, when an individual votes at the AfriNIC
>> elections, he does not vote as himself, he votes as a member. If the
>> member chooses to designate him the right to vote, that is their right as
>> member. To restrict an individual from representing multiple
>> organisations would be equivalent to saying, if you¹re a director of one
>> organisation, you cannot hold a directorship in another. If this were to
>> happen, it might be noted that this would potentially exclude a lot of
>> people from current and past boards who do hold directorships in other
>> organisations.
>> 
>> As stated by Ademola, one voice, one vote. The only thing is, it is still
>> one voice one vote, where one voice = ONE MEMBER, the people actually
>> costing the votes are the members, NOT the individual who is merely the
>> instrument through which the members voice is heard.
>> 
>> That¹s my opinion anyway
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/13/14, 8:45 AM, "Nii Narku Quaynor" <quaynor at ghana.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Just curious. How different is this multi hat different from holding
>>> proxy? I recall Afrinic has a limit on proxy?
>>> 
>>>> On May 13, 2014, at 0:20, ademola at ng.lopworks.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What I find rather absurd is one person having multiple votes. What
>>>> kind of election is that? It should be one voice one vote and that
>>>> should mean one individual one vote.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Ademola Osindero
>>>> CEO/Consulting Director,
>>>> Lopworks Limited
>>>> 
>>>> www.lopworks.com
>>>> Original Message
>>>> From: Owen DeLong
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:14 PM
>>>> To: ademola at ng.lopworks.com
>>>> Cc: mje at posix.co.za; rpd at afrinic.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
>>>> 
>>>> I¹m sorry, but I think that is absurd. All it accomplishes is to force
>>>> organizations to scramble trying to find additional individuals to cast
>>>> their votes. It serves absolutely no useful purpose whatsoever, IMHO.
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 12, 2014, at 3:03 PM, ademola at ng.lopworks.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> One individual one vote, irrespective of how many member organizations
>>>>> you are affiliated to. Once an individual's identity is associated with
>>>>> a member, then the person will cast vote for only that member and no
>>>>> other member.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Ademola Osindero
>>>>> CEO/Consulting Director,
>>>>> Lopworks Limited
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.lopworks.com
>>>>> Original Message
>>>>> From: Owen DeLong
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 10:58 PM
>>>>> To: mje at posix.co.za
>>>>> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: [rpd] Discussion about e-voting
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2. Going forward IMHO I think we should discouraged multiple voting
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> an individual for different members since the probability of voting
>>>>>>> differently is low and this only goes to increase votes across one
>>>>>>> side only. A "polished form" of election rigging. I know some will
>>>>>>> argue one can still like gin with different credentials and vote one
>>>>>>> sided but then :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Could someone from the community enlighten me on this please.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To echo what Mark said in slightly less confrontational languageŠ
>>>>> 
>>>>> One member, one vote. Each member should be able to choose who casts
>>>>> the vote on behalf of that member. I see nothing wrong with members who
>>>>> wish to have the same person represent their interests doing so. It is
>>>>> not election rigging if 25 different member organizations all select
>>>>> the same person to cast votes on their behalf. Presumably each member
>>>>> organization is capable of choosing a voting representative who will
>>>>> vote in a manner consistent with their desires and interests. Likely if
>>>>> they were each forced to choose a different person in order to avoid
>>>>> being disenfranchised as you propose, you would simply see a larger
>>>>> group of voters who are potentially less informed and less motivated. I
>>>>> do not think that would be beneficial to AfriNIC, to the community, nor
>>>>> to the members.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It seems to me that this is not in any way equivalent to stuffing the
>>>>> ballot box or rigging the election. If those organizations all pick the
>>>>> same person to represent them, either they trust that person to share
>>>>> their ideals/needs/wants or they trust that person to vote as they
>>>>> instruct on their behalf. In either case, that person is legitimately
>>>>> exercising the vote designated by the member organization on behalf of
>>>>> each member organization.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Owen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> rpd mailing list
>>>>> rpd at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>>> 
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