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[AFRINIC-rpd] PDP discussions

Badru Ntege ntegeb at one2net.co.ug
Tue Jun 25 09:39:12 UTC 2013 

 
> 
> If however you are saying that your country lacks infrastructure and is still building it, and that will make them a late comer, this is EXACTLY what this policy addresses, as it will allow them to get space at the same time as everyone else WITHOUT having to wait for all the infrastructure to be built and ready.  It advantages your academic institutions who are still in the process of rolling out infrastructure, making it possible for them to get space BEFORE it runs out through being stolen by foreign entities!

Questions the real motive of the policy.  On one hand I'm looking at a policy that kind of legalizes HOARDING of resources and thus breaks all other rules for resource justification.

Then i also see scare tactics of the big bad foreign entities being used as a leverage.   I read someone asking for evidence of these entities but have seen none.    AfriNIC has existing policies that will prevent resources being taken off the continent and if that is the main issue then lets fix that problem.

I see little difference in having HEI's sit on resources they are not using and the resource being used outside the continent both situations deprive the resource from genuine users on the continent.   ( i think thats what they call the pot calling the kettle black)
 
from all the defenses online I see HEI's being used as leverage since naturally people have a soft spot for Academia.    Lets peel this onion and find exactly what we are trying to achieve here ?

Are we trying to protect our resources ??
Are we using the best means that will not disadvantage other community members ??

If our intent is to genuinely protect the resources while giving academia access to resources is this the best approach ??

if we have genuine intent then we should be humble enough to look for an alternative position that will not draw the level of differing views.  And when i say we i mean the authors and those of us on the opposite side.

And yes i know we have a process to follow but i believe our conscious is also key as we move through the process.

Badru







> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> From: Maye Diop <mayediop at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday 25 June 2013 10:47 AM
> To: Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
> Cc: Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>, Adiel Akplogan <adiel at afrinic.net>, Alan Barrett <apb at cequrux.com>, rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] PDP discussions
> 
> I have not yet seen any policy that prevent this fact. It will depend on dynamism of the region and that's fair.
> I'm happy with.
> What's is not fair is with the rule first in first out, and my again my deep concern about no justification, how could then late comers like my country will have change to get addresses ?
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> 2013/6/24 Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>> Hi Christian,
>> 
>> Can you explain this better to me as I am trying to understand your rationale:
>> 
>> ---> Considering the geographical analysis, there is no need to adopt this policy (http://meeting.afrinic.net/www3-utils/hei-stats/hei.php)
>> 
>> I'd like to better understand your thought processes behind your conclusion because the conclusion that you and I come to are very obviously different as in my mind, this CLEARLY shows minor IP address space in academia in almost every country other than South Africa (and please note: NRENs on that list are excluded from this policy so you can discount those as well in doing an analysis).
>> 
>> That current list in my eyes clearly shows that South Africa current has a significant advantage in IP space that needs to be addressed through allocation in the other regions which is what this policy is partially designed to do.  Again, I stress, it is the other regions outside of South Africa and the regions that have been the most disadvantaged in terms of IP space that will benefit more from this proposal than anywhere else.
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> From: Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
>> Date: Monday 24 June 2013 1:52 PM
>> To: Maye Diop <mayediop at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>, Adiel Akplogan <adiel at afrinic.net>, Alan Barrett <apb at cequrux.com>, rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] PDP discussions
>> 
>> Dear Andew,
>> I do work on the financial model and what I got is different from yours.
>> That's why I would like afrinic staff to make a 
>> 1) financial analysis which will make comparison with current policy and sustainability,
>> 2) geographic analysis which will allow to appreciate  @s' repartition through africa region (north, south, est, ouest, central and indian ocean)
>> 
>> ---> Considering the geographical analysis, there is no need to adopt this policy (http://meeting.afrinic.net/www3-utils/hei-stats/hei.php)
>> 3) long or medium consequence about no need of any justification to get back @s.
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Maye Diop <mayediop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Andew,
>>> I do work on the financial model and what I got is different from yours.
>>> That's why I would like afrinic staff to make a 
>>> 1) financial analysis which will make comparison with current policy and sustainability,
>>> 2) geographic analysis which will allow to appreciate  @s' repartition through africa region (north, south, est, ouest, central and indian ocean)
>>> 3) long or medium consequence about no need of any justification to get back @s.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2013/6/24 Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>>>> Hi Maye,
>>>> 
>>>> I do not understand how you can claim this is depriving AfriNIC of its revenues.  Let us look at some hard facts.
>>>> 
>>>> Firstly, annual fees and application fees will still apply to any applications made under this policy, the policy does not change the fee structure in any way shape or form.  Secondly, irrespective of if the space is used under this policy or by other organisations, the money is still coming in.  The current revenues generated by already existent applications will also keep flowing.
>>>> 
>>>> By the published figures at the meeting, if you extrapolate from the data provided in the financial slides based on the amount of revenue generated by new members, it averages out at under $4,000 per member.  Because of the size of the applications being generated by this policy, the fees generated on the application fees will actually be higher than that.  Further to this, AfriNIC is going to need a model to adjust the fees for the reality that IPv4 life span is limited anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> Our application rate for new customers is also limited by the number of ISP's, and whats more due to the amount of consolidation on the continent within the corporate sector that is likely to occur in the coming months/years, the revenue fees are likely to decrease from that as well, since a merged organisation with multiple blocks will move from one category to the other, but the overall aggregate will reduce.
>>>> 
>>>> I would seriously suggest that you actually do some financial modelling around this, and you will actually find that yes, running out of IPv4 may have an impact on the financial status of AfriNIC, but it can be addressed, and the same situation exists irrespective of this policy being passed or not.  The key difference is that without this policy while we may have more revenue coming in (and it won't be substantially more), it will be coming in from foreign sources who have taken our IP space off this continent for use in Asia, Europe and the States.  I once again stress that current policy does not preclude this from happening unless you refer to the soft landing policy.
>>>> 
>>>> So, in summary, it comes to a choice, get the revenues albeit at a slightly lower rate, with a fairly drastic income in initial application fees from the initial applications this policy is likely to generate, or deprive yourself of revenues by slowing allocation rates by not passing the policy, or get the revenue from foreign entities who have taken our resources and left us with nothing (which I believe is not in the interests of this community AT ALL).
>>>> 
>>>> Seriously, before we all panic, lets actually run the models, look at the numbers, and realise that this panic is over nothing.
>>>> 
>>>> Andrew
>>>> 
>>>> From: Maye Diop <mayediop at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Monday 24 June 2013 11:56 AM
>>>> To: Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: Adiel Akplogan <adiel at afrinic.net>, Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>, Alan Barrett <apb at cequrux.com>, rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] PDP discussions
>>>> 
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> I would like to express again my concern about this policy which is a strategy to hold our precious v4 adresses and deprive Afrinic from its unique source of revenues. Then how will AFRINIC continue serving this continent by providing training and support for internet growth?
>>>> I call all board members and the whole community to take their responsability to avoid any action which will jeopardize afrinics' future.
>>>> Best Regards, 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2013/6/24 Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>>>>> Hi Adiel,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just a correction on the South African statistics, University of the Free State has an ASN. University of Cape Town also has an ASN, Rhodes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also need to stress that while the UbuntuNet Alliance is registered as "Netherlands", it is very clearly an African organisation with its sole focus the connectivity of academic networks in Africa.  This is merely a company registration that caused it to state Netherlands (which, while I don't speak for the Alliance, if I am correct now also has a registration in Malawi)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do have to say that in these statistics, I find certain things very telling and I think it clearly highlights just how much the policy under discussion is needed across the continent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Currently South African institutions with their legacy space are utilising more than 10 times the space than their nigerian counterparts.  The student base at HEI's in the respective countries seems to be pretty similar from published statistics, this policy will address that imbalance by providing access to space those those institutions in Nigeria.  It is also very telling that there are single institutions in South Africa that have more IP address space than the entire academic sector in Ghana, Egypt and Congo DR combined!!!  This is the VERY reason this policy needs to pass, because it will make it so much easier for these institutions to get space and address the imbalance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Adiel Akplogan <adiel at afrinic.net>
>>>>> Date: Monday 24 June 2013 10:59 AM
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: <rpd at afrinic.net>, Alan Barrett <apb at cequrux.com>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] PDP discussions
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2013-06-21, at 11:44 AM, Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would like to request to Afrinic to provide the current IPV4 allow to all African Universities regionally. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The information is temporarily available at (this is :
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://meeting.afrinic.net/www3-utils/hei-stats/hei.php
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - a.
>>>>> _______________________________________________ rpd mailing list rpd at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> rpd mailing list
>>>>> rpd at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> ---------------------
>>>> Mme Ndéye Maimouna DIOP
>>>> Spécialiste ICT4D
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> ---------------------
>>> Mme Ndéye Maimouna DIOP
>>> Spécialiste ICT4D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards
>> Christian Bope Domilongo
>> Gtalk : christianbope at gmail.com
>> Msn : christianbope at hotmail.com
>> Skype : christian.bope
>> Phone : +243993005258
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---------------------
> Mme Ndéye Maimouna DIOP
> Spécialiste ICT4D
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd

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