[AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)

[Seun Ojedeji]

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Skype: seun.ojedeji
On Feb 4, 2013 6:27 PM, "Maina Noah" <mainanoa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4 February 2013 18:00, Nii Narku Quaynor <quaynor at ghana.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why don't universities simply apply as usual and justify the network
plan and receive 10:1 if that's what the university needs
>>
>
> Seun, you have been answered and too add on that, say we keep it at 1:3,
what is wrong with requesting for more when you run out in the near future.
 Does the current policy restrict that, NO...
>
And then you get charged for setup and annual fees...now my VC will not
want to hear that.

> Ok we have had the argument that the current process is frustrating, so
let the new proposed policy focus on simplifying/fixing that rather than
focusing on IP allocation ratio's.
>
IMHO IP size is largely the reason for the current process delay and the
ratio seeks to set things right...at least so there is quantifiable proof.
>
> Take small,......Take big......., Take bigger....., based on
Justification.   NO... NO... NO... to take more and not use.
>
Is it about taking more and not using that is the problem? I hope you
remember also that the higher your /32 count then the higher your fee.
We should not also forget that one of the goal of this policy is to have a
legitimate v4 exhaustion path.
>
Good morning!
> Maina Noah
>
>
>
>> On Feb 4, 2013, at 14:36, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Maina
>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Maina Noah <mainanoa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> we stick with 1:2 minimum and 1:3 max for the proposal and that should
be ok.
>>>>
>>> Does it hurt if its 1:5 max and your institution for instance can ask
for 1:2? don't you think we are arguing on the least of the issues....is
there anything wrong with that?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Maina
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4 February 2013 17:05, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Maina,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so even if I agree with you at 2 devices per student (I don’t but
let’s assume I do), 1:2 still does not then cater for staff, it does not
cater for university infrastructure, it does not cater for lab pc’s, it
does no cater for wifi infrastructure and a host of other things.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, even if we say a notebook + phone per student, we STILL need at
MINIMUM 1:3 (as per original proposal).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, the current proposal does NOT set the minimum at 1:5, it
states that 1:5 is the maximum you can get with minimal justification,
after that you need further justification.  So, if an institution believes
they only need 1:2 or 1:3 they CAN still specify that, they can specify a
1:0.5 if they really wanted to (it would be crazy, but it could be done).
All the proposal does is set a maximum figure before lots of documentation
is required.  This means that a university that DOES need 1:5 is still
covered, a university that needs less can apply for less, the option is
open to do that.  What’s the problem?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 4:00 PM
>>>>> To: Andrew Alston
>>>>> Cc: Jackson Muthili; rpd
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 February 2013 14:49, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Maina,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Firstly, almost all modern devices that use 3G automatically switch
to Wifi if they are in range and it is accessible.  Try it, take a 3G phone
and move in range of a wifi hotspot the phone is authenticated to.  It
switches, move outta range, it switches back to 3G.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fine that is a technology feature.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secondly, You and Jackson are making an argument on affordability of
devices, let me say though, that the argument below is counter-intuitive to
this.  You are saying, let those that have them continue to use their
provider networks and pay the costs associated with 3G.  This means that
the rich students who can afford the data at mobile rates (and it’s not
cheap), have a far better experience than those who simply have the devices
and cannot afford the 3G/HSDPA/LTE/Whatever commercial data rates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is simple and lets not confuse each other and its best we
kept this in the context of students. SO, NOT ALL STUDENTS CAN AFFORD TO
HAVE 5 DEVICES, not now and not ever on this continent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue of affordability is known and i agree with you on that but
like i said my argument stems from the fact that your statistics do not
reflect the reality on the ground across this continent. Even the ones you
share about Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Egypt, were all collective
internet growth stats per country not per University in each country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, by NOT providing sufficient addressing and accessibility for
these devices, you are effectively advocating for an increase in the
digital divide.  Once again, the poor get screwed while the rich continue
to get a better experience and hence, a better education.  This I have a
major problem with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No we are not advocating for any digital divide. We are saying that
your ratio of 1:5  does not reflect the reality on the ground which is why
i indicated that from my experience 1:2 is ok and will still do for the
poor students because they will most definitely afford a laptop and a phone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Noah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:10 PM
>>>>>> To: Andrew Alston
>>>>>> Cc: Jackson Muthili; rpd
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for this informative research and stats. Do you realize that
all those stats are based on Telecom operators networks and IP infra etc.
So the question is, why the 1:5 ratio if according to all the stats you
have indicated, the same has already been taken care off by the Telecoms
who offer the 3G internet services on those devices thus they are already
pre-assigned with an IP address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maina
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4 February 2013 13:25, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jackson,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You assume that the ONLY thing you are addressing here are student
devices, what about the University infrastructure itself?  The servers, the
staff pc’s, the staff devices, the networking equipment, the wifi ap’s
themselves, the list is endless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now some stats to say that it is not only South Africa using mobile
connectivity, here are some interesting figures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An interesting stat, as of 2011 there were 951 MILLION active sim
cards in Africa, a figure *WAY* exceeding urban population, indicating
multiple devices in the mobile space on that base alone.  By end of 2012,
that is predicted to be 1.06 billion, and 1.144 billion by end of 2013
(Stats I could get were from 2011, so can only give the predictions for
2012/2013 and not the actual figures).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Furthermore, Africa and Middle east are predicted to have a compound
annual growth rate in mobile connectivity of 129% annually, with a global
market share in mobile connectivity rising from 12% as of 2010 to 20% by
end of 2015, with the mobile market in Africa representing over 6 billion
dollars in 2011 and rising to 12 billion dollars in 2014. (Stats courtesy
of Informa Telecoms and Media).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, let’s look at some stats from the Mobile Youth Report 2011
(Note, these are the youth population alone, and not the combined
population).  In Nigeria there are 45 million youth using mobile data,
South Africa is at 27 million, Egypt is at close to 30 million, all three
nations have significantly more mobile youth than the UK (currently sitting
at around 20 million).   Looking at the Opera Mini State of Mobile web
report 2011, we see a growth of mobile connectivity in Kenya at 82.8%, in
Egypt at 190.9%, in South Africa at 67.7%, in Nigeria at 131.9% in the
space of a year.  Between December 2010 and March 2011, there was a 36%
growth in Nigeria alone of smartphone page impressions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we look at mobile traffic growth in terms of traffic (2010
report), the top country in terms of growth is Sudan, with a 2466% increase
in traffic.  This is followed by Morocco (414%), Tunisia (369%), Ghana
(287%), Egypt (174%) and Nigeria (133%).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bottom line, your assertion that the use of mobile devices is
restricted to rich South African students seems to be rather… disputed by
facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Multiple device mobile connectivity is here, it’s a reality, we need
to wake up to that fact and cater for it, and this is PARTICULARLY evident
in the youth category that represent the student base of the academic
institutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On
Behalf Of Maina Noah
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:52 AM
>>>>>> To: Jackson Muthili
>>>>>> Cc: rpd
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4 February 2013 11:05, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Aston assumption apply to student from very rich family only
in
>>>>>> SA. Even in SA student from 80% of economy not considered rich can
not
>>>>>> afford 5 IP device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This policy does not represent reality of university outside SA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jackson, Indeed, which is why the community as a whole needs to be
more realistic with the reality on the ground at various universities hence
my argument which i based sorely on real facts from one Top university here
and i have note visited the other small university's yet of which the
situation could even be more negative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I dont support it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I would support a 1:2 ratio as opposed to 1:5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jack
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Maina Noah <mainanoa at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On 3 February 2013 16:58, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Hello People
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> > Hi Seun,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.na>
wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> I don't have issues with my iPhone, iPad, iPad mini, Mac Book
Air, iMac,
>>>>>>> >>> eeePC, Ubunto server(s) or BlackBerry,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Right, this students either studies and works and has a good
paycheck or his
>>>>>>> > parents are doing very very well.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Here is a sample of one person's gears, just to emphasis that
1:5 is being
>>>>>>> >> modest ;)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I have been quietly thinking through the communities 1:5
argument, but one
>>>>>>> > little but very important factor is being left out. The fact that
NOT EVERY
>>>>>>> > STUDENT CAN AFFORD TO BUT ALL THOSE TOYS. I went to University of
Dar es
>>>>>>> > salaam last week to just study the environment and internet usage
at the
>>>>>>> > campus as my curiosity stemmed from this very 1:5 argument, and
guess what,
>>>>>>> > most students can;t even afford to own Laptops. Funny thing is
the % of
>>>>>>> > students who actually have the Steve Jobs toys are like 10%
because they can
>>>>>>> > even afford them. The Private students only get School Fees from
their
>>>>>>> > parents and those on Government loans can hardly afford a
personal laptop.
>>>>>>> > Most of them share laptops haaah. On the issue of phones, there
are no
>>>>>>> > campus wide wireless networks and thus most students with
smartphones are
>>>>>>> > using 3G services from the Telecom companies.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This is a case for one specific HEI in Tanzania and now how about
the rest
>>>>>>> > of the continents and in other countries. Let us be realistic and
stop
>>>>>>> > assuming and basing our arguments on some few specific
institutions and rich
>>>>>>> > students.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Cheers!
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > My 2 cents,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Maina
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > rpd mailing list
>>>>>>> > rpd at afrinic.net
>>>>>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Seun Ojedeji,
>>>> Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>>>> web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>>>> Mobile: +2348035233535
>>>> alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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