[AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)

Mon Feb 4 14:11:47 UTC 2013

Hi Andrew,

we stick with 1:2 minimum and 1:3 max for the proposal and that should be
ok.

Maina

On 4 February 2013 17:05, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Maina,****
>
> ** **
>
> Ok, so even if I agree with you at 2 devices per student (I don’t but
> let’s assume I do), 1:2 still does not then cater for staff, it does not
> cater for university infrastructure, it does not cater for lab pc’s, it
> does no cater for wifi infrastructure and a host of other things.****
>
> ** **
>
> So, even if we say a notebook + phone per student, we STILL need at
> MINIMUM 1:3 (as per original proposal).****
>
> ** **
>
> Furthermore, the current proposal does NOT set the minimum at 1:5, it
> states that 1:5 is the maximum you can get with minimal justification,
> after that you need further justification.  So, if an institution believes
> they only need 1:2 or 1:3 they CAN still specify that, they can specify a
> 1:0.5 if they really wanted to (it would be crazy, but it could be done).
> All the proposal does is set a maximum figure before lots of documentation
> is required.  This means that a university that DOES need 1:5 is still
> covered, a university that needs less can apply for less, the option is
> open to do that.  What’s the problem?****
>
> ** **
>
> Andrew****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 4:00 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston
> *Cc:* Jackson Muthili; rpd
> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft
> (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 4 February 2013 14:49, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:
> ****
>
> Hi Maina,****
>
>  ****
>
> Hi Andrew,****
>
>  ****
>
> Firstly, almost all modern devices that use 3G automatically switch to
> Wifi if they are in range and it is accessible.  Try it, take a 3G phone
> and move in range of a wifi hotspot the phone is authenticated to.  It
> switches, move outta range, it switches back to 3G.****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Fine that is a technology feature.****
>
>  ****
>
> Secondly, You and Jackson are making an argument on affordability of
> devices, let me say though, that the argument below is counter-intuitive to
> this.  You are saying, let those that have them continue to use their
> provider networks and pay the costs associated with 3G.  This means that
> the rich students who can afford the data at mobile rates (and it’s not
> cheap), have a far better experience than those who simply have the devices
> and cannot afford the 3G/HSDPA/LTE/Whatever commercial data rates. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The point is simple and lets not confuse each other and its best we kept
> this in the context of students. SO, NOT ALL STUDENTS CAN AFFORD TO HAVE 5
> DEVICES, not now and not ever on this continent. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The issue of affordability is known and i agree with you on that but like
> i said my argument stems from the fact that your statistics do not reflect
> the reality on the ground across this continent. Even the ones you share
> about Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Egypt, were all collective internet
> growth stats per country not per University in each country.****
>
>  ****
>
> So, by NOT providing sufficient addressing and accessibility for these
> devices, you are effectively advocating for an increase in the digital
> divide.  Once again, the poor get screwed while the rich continue to get a
> better experience and hence, a better education.  This I have a major
> problem with.****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> No we are not advocating for any digital divide. We are saying that your
> ratio of 1:5  does not reflect the reality on the ground which is why i
> indicated that from my experience 1:2 is ok and will still do for the poor
> students because they will most definitely afford a laptop and a phone.***
> *
>
>  ****
>
> Andrew****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Noah****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 1:10 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston
> *Cc:* Jackson Muthili; rpd
> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft
> (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>
>  ****
>
> Andrew, ****
>
>  ****
>
> thanks for this informative research and stats. Do you realize that all
> those stats are based on Telecom operators networks and IP infra etc. So
> the question is, why the 1:5 ratio if according to all the stats you have
> indicated, the same has already been taken care off by the Telecoms who
> offer the 3G internet services on those devices thus they are already
> pre-assigned with an IP address.****
>
>  ****
>
> Maina****
>
>  ****
>
> On 4 February 2013 13:25, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:
> ****
>
> Hi Jackson,****
>
>  ****
>
> You assume that the ONLY thing you are addressing here are student
> devices, what about the University infrastructure itself?  The servers, the
> staff pc’s, the staff devices, the networking equipment, the wifi ap’s
> themselves, the list is endless.****
>
> Now some stats to say that it is not only South Africa using mobile
> connectivity, here are some interesting figures.****
>
>  ****
>
> An interesting stat, as of 2011 there were 951 MILLION active sim cards in
> Africa, a figure **WAY** exceeding urban population, indicating multiple
> devices in the mobile space on that base alone.  By end of 2012, that is
> predicted to be 1.06 billion, and 1.144 billion by end of 2013 (Stats I
> could get were from 2011, so can only give the predictions for 2012/2013
> and not the actual figures).****
>
>  ****
>
> Furthermore, Africa and Middle east are predicted to have a compound
> annual growth rate in mobile connectivity of 129% annually, with a global
> market share in mobile connectivity rising from 12% as of 2010 to 20% by
> end of 2015, with the mobile market in Africa representing over 6 billion
> dollars in 2011 and rising to 12 billion dollars in 2014. (Stats courtesy
> of Informa Telecoms and Media). ****
>
>  ****
>
> Now, let’s look at some stats from the Mobile Youth Report 2011 (Note,
> these are the youth population alone, and not the combined population).  In
> Nigeria there are 45 million youth using mobile data, South Africa is at 27
> million, Egypt is at close to 30 million, all three nations have
> significantly more mobile youth than the UK (currently sitting at around 20
> million).   Looking at the Opera Mini State of Mobile web report 2011, we
> see a growth of mobile connectivity in Kenya at 82.8%, in Egypt at 190.9%,
> in South Africa at 67.7%, in Nigeria at 131.9% in the space of a year.
> Between December 2010 and March 2011, there was a 36% growth in Nigeria
> alone of smartphone page impressions.  ****
>
>  ****
>
> If we look at mobile traffic growth in terms of traffic (2010 report), the
> top country in terms of growth is Sudan, with a 2466% increase in traffic.
> This is followed by Morocco (414%), Tunisia (369%), Ghana (287%), Egypt
> (174%) and Nigeria (133%).  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Bottom line, your assertion that the use of mobile devices is restricted
> to rich South African students seems to be rather… disputed by facts.****
>
>  ****
>
> Multiple device mobile connectivity is here, it’s a reality, we need to
> wake up to that fact and cater for it, and this is PARTICULARLY evident in
> the youth category that represent the student base of the academic
> institutions.****
>
>  ****
>
> Andrew****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] *On
> Behalf Of *Maina Noah
> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 11:52 AM
> *To:* Jackson Muthili
> *Cc:* rpd
> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft
> (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On 4 February 2013 11:05, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> wrote:*
> ***
>
> +1
>
> Andrew Aston assumption apply to student from very rich family only in
> SA. Even in SA student from 80% of economy not considered rich can not
> afford 5 IP device.
>
> This policy does not represent reality of university outside SA.****
>
>  ****
>
> Jackson, Indeed, which is why the community as a whole needs to be more
> realistic with the reality on the ground at various universities hence my
> argument which i based sorely on real facts from one Top university here
> and i have note visited the other small university's yet of which the
> situation could even be more negative. ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> I dont support it.****
>
>  I would support a 1:2 ratio as opposed to 1:5.   ****
>
> Jack
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Maina Noah <mainanoa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 February 2013 16:58, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello People
> >>
> > Hi Seun,
> >
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.na>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don't have issues with my iPhone, iPad, iPad mini, Mac Book Air,
> iMac,
> >>> eeePC, Ubunto server(s) or BlackBerry,
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Right, this students either studies and works and has a good paycheck or
> his
> > parents are doing very very well.
> >
> >>
> >> Here is a sample of one person's gears, just to emphasis that 1:5 is
> being
> >> modest ;)
> >>
> >
> > I have been quietly thinking through the communities 1:5 argument, but
> one
> > little but very important factor is being left out. The fact that NOT
> EVERY
> > STUDENT CAN AFFORD TO BUT ALL THOSE TOYS. I went to University of Dar es
> > salaam last week to just study the environment and internet usage at the
> > campus as my curiosity stemmed from this very 1:5 argument, and guess
> what,
> > most students can;t even afford to own Laptops. Funny thing is the % of
> > students who actually have the Steve Jobs toys are like 10% because they
> can
> > even afford them. The Private students only get School Fees from their
> > parents and those on Government loans can hardly afford a personal
> laptop.
> > Most of them share laptops haaah. On the issue of phones, there are no
> > campus wide wireless networks and thus most students with smartphones are
> > using 3G services from the Telecom companies.
> >
> > This is a case for one specific HEI in Tanzania and now how about the
> rest
> > of the continents and in other countries. Let us be realistic and stop
> > assuming and basing our arguments on some few specific institutions and
> rich
> > students.
> >
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> >
> > Maina
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rpd mailing list
> > rpd at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
> >****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
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