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[AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)

Maina Noah mainanoa at
Tue Jan 15 12:17:29 UTC 2013


I here you and i understand your point of view clearly. But i for one will
not support this policy but will tend to stand on my own and say i dont
want leftovers no more even if they can be useful for one night.

I think in away AfrNIC has also encouraged some of us as providers to get
ready and prepare for IPv6 "the new food" which i personally think is the
right path. We want more leftovers (IPv4) yet we still seat on the new
fresh food (IPv6) without consuming it too.

What is wrong now,!!!! Afrinic or the community?

Maina Noah

On 14 January 2013 21:30, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at> wrote:

> Maina,****
> ** **
> While I agree with you to an extent, the problem is, and to continue your
> analogy, when people believe there is still food in the fridge, no one goes
> out and actually gets more.  The fact that the food is slowly going rotten
> never seems to occur to people in this industry.  It’s time to empty the
> damn fridge and start over.  Otherwise, the rest of the world will end up
> using our fridge as their toxic waste dump because we’ll have grown so used
> to eating rotten food that will accept more of it when the rest of the
> world realizes it’s gone bad.****
> ** **
> If people want the v4 space, let them have it, and that in particular
> applies to people on this continent.  Instead we sit in a situation where
> the usefulness of v4 is extremely limited, and instead of maximizing what
> is left of that usefulness, and using the v4 space before its sell by date,
> we put processes and procedures and blockages in the way of those who DO
> have the ability to consume the space in a legitimate manner.  Meanwhile,
> our useful v4 pool slowly goes rotten until its useless and no one wants
> it.  ****
> ** **
> What does this end up doing?  Making waste out of what could have been
> used.  AfriNIC claims it needs revenue, well, wake up call, putting the
> community in a position where it’s so difficult to get space that they
> would rather starve than apply for it, isn’t conducive to actually getting
> people to pay for the space we have and generate those needed revenues.  *
> ***
> ** **
> Work this out long term… at currently, PI v6 space is free if you have PI
> v4 space… LIR v6 space is pretty cheap, you get a /32 as an LIR, chances
> are, because of the size of the allocation, you’re never gonna need another
> allocation.  This means, end of life of v4, the revenue streams for the RIR
> are going to take a hit, a significant one.  It is pure insanity to sit on
> as much V4 as AfriNIC has and NOT promote its active usage in every way
> possible, because if people have it, they are paying for it, either in
> terms of the EU allocation fees or the recurring LIR fees.  Once the v4 is
> dead  in the rest of the world, no one is gonna want it, and the chance to
> generate revenue which could be needed long term to sustain this
> organization is GONE.****
> ** **
> Let’s not be fools and waste what we have by letting it go to rot sitting
> in an allocation pool that has been made impossibly difficult to access due
> to inefficiency, moving goal posts, inconsistency and complexity.****
> ** **
> ** **
> Andrew****
> ****
> ** **
> *From:* Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2013 7:49 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston
> *Cc:* Sunday Folayan; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List
> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address
> Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)****
> ** **
> Guys,****
> ** **
> IPv4 addresses are leftovers....lets focus on the fresh food...IPv6 and
> catch up with those who no longer have leftovers remember they are
> deploying IPv6 aggressively. Lets encourage that than wasting time on
> trying to figure out how we can best use the left overs we have. See
> leftovers can only be eaten after one night...then next night they come
> poisonous :-)****
> ** **
> Maina Noah****
> ** **
> On 14 January 2013 15:50, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at> wrote:
> ****
> Hi Sunday,
> I would support such a policy as well, no questions asked, without even
> blinking.  Particularly with the 3-1 ratio mentioned.  It was this ratio
> that caused such huge arguments during a recent allocation, where AfriNIC
> came out with arguments like "If someone is on a LAB pc, they aren't using
> a
> phone at the same time, therefore it won't need an IP address" (Yes, I
> actually have that logged).  Completely mad, since who turns off a phones
> wireless the moment they walk into a PC lab....
> If we can pass a policy that does this, treating the Universities and
> research centres as end users and supporting this ratio for university
> campuses in allocations, where allocations are based on documentation
> surrounding enrolled student head count, I would be a very happy man.  You
> want to co-draft with me?
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sunday Folayan [mailto:sfolayan at]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:42 PM
> To: Andrew Alston
> Cc: 'David Conrad'; 'AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address
> Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)
> Andrew,
> I like your statement ... "Let SOMEONE get some advantage out of the
> assets,
> while they still has value".
> I will support a policy proposal that has a reincarnation of John Postel go
> round African Universities and Research Centres, looking at their LANs and
> making a direct relacement of their Natted V4 space with routable v4
> addresses and also matching v6 to go with it. oh ... we can even estimate 3
> addresses per students population, since they will have laptops, pads and
> fones, all requiring Wifi at the minimum.
> That is a no-brainer to get the assets used, while they still have value.
> Sunday.
> On 14/01/2013 13:13, Andrew Alston wrote:
> > The rest of the world is interested in African v4, because yes, while
> > we are behind the curve on v6, is the fact is, the rest of the world
> > is also behind on their v6 deployments.  We are just a lot more behind
> > than they are :) Sadly reality is, people spoke to years about the
> > fact that v4 was going to run out, hell, I remember sitting in Cairo
> > in 2005 and hearing the arguments put forward by Tony Hain about this,
> > no one wanted to listen.  Now, the v4 is gone and people need to keep
> > going while they migrate/dual-stack.  So, there is demand for v4.
> > Africa is in a unique position though, because by the time we run out
> > of v4, the need for dual-stack will probably be a lot less than it is
> > today, because the rest of the world will have stopped using nearly as
> > much of it by that point at our current allocation rates.  Wanna take
> > a guess at what is going to happen then if we aren't v6 ready?  Just
> > like the rest of the world flogs us old equipment because they think
> > they can get away with it, we'll suddenly become the dumping ground
> > for the unused v4 that isn't needed anymore.  Sadly, if attitudes
> > haven't changed, we may find that many companies buy into this and
> actually get those assets.
> >
> > V4 assets are valuable today, a year or two from now, they will be a
> > lot less valuable, 5 years from now, they will be practically
> > worthless.  I'd rather see us get away from our v4 obsession by
> > forcing people to go v6 depleting our pool, than drag it on so long
> > that the rest of the world moves past it, and then continues to keep
> > us in the back waters by selling us their now worthless v4 assets
> > because we've never changed the mindset to "WE NEED V6".
> >
> > You know, I find this whole discussion to be kind of sad, we as
> > African's claim we want to be part of the global community, we want
> > open trade, we want the same rights and advantages as the rest of the
> > world, we want to be part of the global economies, yet, we still sit
> > and argue against getting involved globally.  It works both ways
> > people, if we continue to hoard what we are VERY obviously not using
> > (look at our allocation rates), simply because "It's my precious"
> > (sorry, lame reference to lord of the rings), all we will do is
> > further alienate ourselves from the rest of the globe.  That isn't
> productive.
> >
> > Either find a way  to actually USE the v4 we have on the continent, or
> > let it go, the first is obviously preferential, but if we can't do
> > that because of all the reasons detailed in my last email or because
> > of any other reasons, then let SOMEONE get some advantage out of the
> > assets while they still have value.
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