Search RPD Archives
Limit search to: Subject & Body Subject Author
Sort by:

[AfriNIC-rpd] Last Call: IPv4 Soft Landing Policy - AFPUB-2010-v4-005-draft-03

Mark Elkins mje at
Tue May 17 17:08:10 UTC 2011

Well said Owen!!!

On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 05:36 -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:
> On May 17, 2011, at 2:38 AM, Martin Millnert wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Alston <aa at> wrote:
> >> I object to the policy in its current form for reasons stated in other
> >> posts, but to clarify:
> >> 
> >> I object to the /27 minimum allocation size in section 3.5.2 and I
> >> believe it should be a /24
> >> 
> >> I strongly and vehemently oppose the second paragraph in section 3.8
> >> which limits use of AfriNIC space outside of the region to 10%, and in
> >> turn creates an unenforceable, unrealistic clause which disadvantages
> >> African operators looking to expand into the international arena.
> >> 
> >> Thanks
> >> 
> >> Andrew
> > 
> > I agree with Andrew's objections and so object to the current
> > proposal. I believe unenforceable rules (paper laws) sets bad
> > precedents.
> > 
> At some level almost all rules are unenforceable. Any just society depends
> to a large extent on voluntary compliance and the rules serve first and
> foremost as an expression of the community's intent for how members of
> that society should conduct themselves.
> Enforcement is strictly a mechanism to deal with and discourage the
> outliers, primarily by taking away advantages gained and providing some
> level of disincentive for enough of them to discourage others. The idea
> of hard-core zero-tolerance absolute enforcement of any regulation
> is unachievable even with a strong military. However, where we even
> come close to achieving such a thing, we have generally referred to
> the situation as a "police state" or "fascist regime". The RIRs are not
> and cannot be effective as such a structure. First, there are safeguards
> in place to prevent them from having that much power (this is a good
> thing). Second, RIR compliance at any level is strictly a voluntary
> thing. The RIR does not have the legal ability to prevent me from
> using a set of numbers they have issued to someone else, if I can
> convince a sufficient fraction of ISPs to listen to me instead of them.
> This voluntary cooperation on the part of ISPs is where ALL ability
> to enforce policies of the RIRs is concentrated. Absent ISPs choosing
> to do so, RIR policies are only words on paper. Fortunately, at least
> so far, the ISPs recognize that doing so is vital to a stable and functional
> internet. The day they stop, we will have serious address coordination
> problems and significant destabilization. Fortunately, everyone knows
> this and the ISPs are unlikely to make such a choice since each and
> every one of them would be directly harmed by such a decision. There
> have been a few ISPs that have on occasion attempted to do so and
> they usually either get filtered or lose their peering altogether.
> As such,I don't see how this rule is particularly more unenforceable
> than any other RIR rule and I think it is in the community's interest
> to express their clear intent through this policy. If the community
> intends that AfriNIC resources should be used within region, then,
> this paragraph should remain in the policy and the policy should
> be adopted.
> If the community intends that AfriNIC resources should be plundered
> by foreign interests like so many other African resources throughout
> history, then, this paragraph should be removed.
> It really boils down to that simple choice.
> Owen
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at

  .  .     ___. .__      Posix Systems - Sth Africa
 /| /|       / /__       mje at  -  Mark J Elkins, Cisco CCIE
/ |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS  Tel: +27 12 807 0590  Cell: +27 82 601 0496

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 4490 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <>

More information about the RPD mailing list