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[AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
Douglas Onyango
ondouglas at yahoo.com
Sun May 17 10:05:55 UTC 2009
Graham,
YI would like to say in our original policy we suggested making a v6 adoption plan approved as part of the requirements for v4 in this phase, but there was the general consensus that as RIR's we shall be over stepping our boundaries if we made anything along these lines mandatory.
On the issue of LIR's being oblivious, i think it should be possible for us to avail some v4 exahustion info as part of the Agreement signed for the allocation so that there is mandatory reading and signing after which a plea of ignorance should not be an issue.
Regards,
Douglas onyango +256(0712)981329
If you are not part of the solution, your are part of the Problem.
--- On Sat, 5/16/09, rpd-request at afrinic.net <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
From: rpd-request at afrinic.net <rpd-request at afrinic.net>
Subject: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
To: rpd at afrinic.net
Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 7:21 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 (SM)
2. Re: Softlanding Proposal Update (Graham Beneke)
3. Re: Softlanding Proposal Update (Graham Beneke)
4. Re: Softlanding Proposal Update (SM)
5. Re: Softlanding Proposal Update (SM)
6. Re: Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 (Douglas Onyango)
7. Re: Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 (Adiel A. Akplogan)
8. Re: Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 (SM)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:18:59 -0700
From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
To: Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at yahoo.com>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090514064812.03398de0 at resistor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Hi Douglas,
At 06:19 14-05-2009, Douglas Onyango wrote:
>Correct, its the four allocations in the
>exhaustion phase here....because the proposal
>cuts from the current allocation phase into the
>Exhaustion phase, the "Additional" word i believe is not misplaced
I made a mistake when I wrote the question. It
should be "Why" instead of "Which". As my
question was not answered, I'll ask it again:
My question is about whether the aggregate
allocation (one + four) will allow equitable
distribution of IPv4 addresses among LIRs. To
put it differently, how did you reach these numbers?
Leo and Graham commented on setting the limit for
IPv4 address space that can be allocated during
the Exhaustion phase. I believe that we are asking similar questions.
>My definitions contains the following.......
[snip]
>(c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being an
>organization which has recently become a member
>of AfriNIC but has yet to be assigned or allocated any IPv4 address space.
It's better not to use "recently"? You are
proposing a policy that AfriNIC will have to
implement. If the policy is unclear, AfriNIC
will have to interpret the intent and that may cause problems.
I suggest a change to the definitions:
(b) Existing LIR´s An existing LIR is defined as being an organization that
assigns address space to 'end-users' and who
has already been assigned or allocated
IPv4 address space by AfriNIC.
(c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being
an organization that assigns address
space to 'end-users' and who is a member of
AfriNIC but has not been assigned or
allocated any IPv4 address space prior to the Exhaustion phase.
There is a definition for Critical Infrastructure
Provider. However, there is no mention of them
in the policy. Are they covered by the Soft landing policy?
"A /16 IPv4 address block will be in reserve out of the last /8 pool. This
/16 IPv4 address block shall be preserved by AfriNIC for some future uses,
as yet unforeseen."
I suggest using "reserved" instead of preserved.
Regards,
-sm
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:37:13 +0200
From: Graham Beneke <graham-ml at apolix.co.za>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Softlanding Proposal Update
To: AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List <rpd at afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <4A0C64D9.7000204 at apolix.co.za>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
McTim wrote:
>
> I would object to this as being too restrictive. We want to encourage
> v6 uptake, not mandate it. It's not our place to mandate to other
> orgs what protocols they use, is it?
>
We set mandates on plenty of other things - like how much IPv4 space you
may get, what types of ASNs you may use and so forth.
This policy is for a softlanding - there must be a point at which we
make it clear to the LIRs that continuing with IPv4-only networks is not
viable. If we just continue to handout IPv4 prefixes then we will have a
very hard landing one day when AfriNIC just says "Sorry no more
addresses" and LIRs respond "Why? You gave us addresses last week"
Perhaps we don't want to do this with all allocations from our last /8 -
but there must be a threshold when we completely change our attitude to
allocations.
--
Graham Beneke
Apolix Internet Services
E-Mail/MSN/Jabber: graham at apolix.co.za Skype: grbeneke
VoIP: 087-750-5696 Cell: 082-432-1873
http://www.apolix.co.za/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:42:54 +0200
From: Graham Beneke <graham-ml at apolix.co.za>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Softlanding Proposal Update
To: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <4A0C662E.8060005 at apolix.co.za>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
SM wrote:
> Your proposal specifies that a LIR can be allocated a /23 (IPv4 maximum
> allocation size) and four additional /23. My question is about whether
> the aggregate allocation (one + four) will allow equitable distribution
> of IPv4 addresses among LIRs.
This brings me to another of the reasons for having a range of possible
allocation sizes. If an LIR knows that they will need 4x /23 then I
would much prefer that we allocate them 1 x /21 and not 4 fragments of
address space.
The routing table size has been clearly identified is a looming problem
for the global internet. Let is not fragment the IP space any more than
we have to.
--
Graham Beneke
Apolix Internet Services
E-Mail/MSN/Jabber: graham at apolix.co.za Skype: grbeneke
VoIP: 087-750-5696 Cell: 082-432-1873
http://www.apolix.co.za/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:43:37 -0700
From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Softlanding Proposal Update
To: Graham Beneke <graham-ml at apolix.co.za>
Cc: AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List <rpd at afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090514122124.03447208 at resistor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi Graham,
At 11:37 14-05-2009, Graham Beneke wrote:
>We set mandates on plenty of other things - like how much IPv4 space you
>may get, what types of ASNs you may use and so forth.
>
>This policy is for a softlanding - there must be a point at which we
>make it clear to the LIRs that continuing with IPv4-only networks is not
>viable. If we just continue to handout IPv4 prefixes then we will have a
>very hard landing one day when AfriNIC just says "Sorry no more
>addresses" and LIRs respond "Why? You gave us addresses last week"
If a LIR is not aware of IPv4 address exhaustion, then it is living
in a cocoon. Given the level of preparedness in the AfriNIC region,
I would imagine a hard landing. However, there are is a factor
(resource utilization) that might work in favor of the region. The
soft landing policy is to mitigate the issue of IPv4 address
exhaustion instead of solving it.
Regards,
-sm
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:24:11 -0700
From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Softlanding Proposal Update
To: Graham Beneke <graham-ml at apolix.co.za>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090514124402.0344d4b0 at resistor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi Graham,
At 11:42 14-05-2009, Graham Beneke wrote:
>This brings me to another of the reasons for having a range of possible
>allocation sizes. If an LIR knows that they will need 4x /23 then I
>would much prefer that we allocate them 1 x /21 and not 4 fragments of
>address space.
>
>The routing table size has been clearly identified is a looming problem
>for the global internet. Let is not fragment the IP space any more than
>we have to.
On one hand we have to manage the IPv4 addresses and on the other the
routing table size. By choosing a policy of not fragmenting the IPv4
address space further (allocating a larger block), AfriNIC will have
less IPv4 addresses to allocate to LIRs.
Regards,
-sm
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 01:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
To: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <445805.67821.qm at web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
SM,
I am calling on Alain to help with the stat analysis for the current usage trends vs our assignment policy.
I will incorporate the new definitions.
The version on the Afrinic site is not current, please use the copy on the mailing list, doesn't have mention of critical infrastructure, we removed it as we found it infeasible to make allocation to critical infrastructure from the the /16 we are reserving.
Regards,
Douglas onyango +256(0712)981329
If you are not part of the solution, your are part of the Problem.
--- On Thu, 5/14/09, SM <sm at resistor.net> wrote:
From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
To: "Douglas Onyango" <ondouglas at yahoo.com>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 5:18 PM
Hi Douglas,
At 06:19 14-05-2009, Douglas Onyango wrote:
> Correct, its the four allocations in the exhaustion phase here....because the proposal cuts from the current allocation phase into the Exhaustion phase, the "Additional" word i believe is not misplaced
I made a mistake when I wrote the question. It should be "Why" instead of "Which". As my question was not answered, I'll ask it again:
My question is about whether the aggregate allocation (one + four) will allow equitable distribution of IPv4 addresses among LIRs. To put it differently, how did you reach these numbers?
Leo and Graham commented on setting the limit for IPv4 address space that can be allocated during the Exhaustion phase. I believe that we are asking similar questions.
> My definitions contains the following.......
[snip]
> (c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being an organization which has recently become a member of AfriNIC but has yet to be assigned or allocated any IPv4 address space.
It's better not to use "recently"? You are proposing a policy that AfriNIC will have to implement. If the policy is unclear, AfriNIC will have to interpret the intent and that may cause problems.
I suggest a change to the definitions:
(b) Existing LIR´s An existing LIR is defined as being an organization that
assigns address space to 'end-users' and who has already been assigned or allocated
IPv4 address space by AfriNIC.
(c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being an organization that assigns address
space to 'end-users' and who is a member of AfriNIC but has not been assigned or
allocated any IPv4 address space prior to the Exhaustion phase.
There is a definition for Critical Infrastructure Provider. However, there is no mention of them in the policy. Are they covered by the Soft landing policy?
"A /16 IPv4 address block will be in reserve out of the last /8 pool. This
/16 IPv4 address block shall be preserved by AfriNIC for some future uses,
as yet unforeseen."
I suggest using "reserved" instead of preserved.
Regards,
-sm
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:06:16 +0400
From: "Adiel A. Akplogan" <adiel at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
To: Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at yahoo.com>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <B6AA4717-E08A-4E2D-A269-D053A450B966 at afrinic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Hello Douglas an all,
On 15-May-09, at 12:08 PM, Douglas Onyango wrote:
> SM,
> I am calling on Alain to help with the stat analysis for the current
> usage trends vs our assignment policy.
an up to date analysis of the allocations trend for the past
10 years and an updated version of the document available at: http://www.afrinic.net/news/ipv4_exhaustion.htm
will be circulated soon. In the mean time some raw data can
be accessed at:
http://www.afrinic.net/statistics/index.htm
http://www.afrinic.net/statistics/resource_search.htm
http://www.afrinic.net/statistics/ipv4_resources.htm
Thanks
- a.
>
>
> I will incorporate the new definitions.
>
> The version on the Afrinic site is not current, please use the copy
> on the mailing list, doesn't have mention of critical
> infrastructure, we removed it as we found it infeasible to make
> allocation to critical infrastructure from the the /16 we are
> reserving.
>
> Regards,
> Douglas onyango +256(0712)981329
> If you are not part of the solution, your are part of the Problem.
>
> --- On Thu, 5/14/09, SM <sm at resistor.net> wrote:
>
> From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
> Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
> To: "Douglas Onyango" <ondouglas at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 5:18 PM
>
> Hi Douglas,
> At 06:19 14-05-2009, Douglas Onyango wrote:
> > Correct, its the four allocations in the exhaustion phase
> here....because the proposal cuts from the current allocation phase
> into the Exhaustion phase, the "Additional" word i believe is not
> misplaced
>
> I made a mistake when I wrote the question. It should be "Why"
> instead of "Which". As my question was not answered, I'll ask it
> again:
>
> My question is about whether the aggregate allocation (one + four)
> will allow equitable distribution of IPv4 addresses among LIRs. To
> put it differently, how did you reach these numbers?
>
> Leo and Graham commented on setting the limit for IPv4 address space
> that can be allocated during the Exhaustion phase. I believe that
> we are asking similar questions.
>
> > My definitions contains the following.......
>
> [snip]
>
> > (c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being an organization which
> has recently become a member of AfriNIC but has yet to be assigned
> or allocated any IPv4 address space.
>
> It's better not to use "recently"? You are proposing a policy that
> AfriNIC will have to implement. If the policy is unclear, AfriNIC
> will have to interpret the intent and that may cause problems.
>
> I suggest a change to the definitions:
>
> (b) Existing LIR´s An existing LIR is defined as being an
> organization that
> assigns address space to 'end-users' and who has already been
> assigned or allocated
> IPv4 address space by AfriNIC.
>
> (c) New LIR´s A new LIR is defined as being an organization that
> assigns address
> space to 'end-users' and who is a member of AfriNIC but has not
> been assigned or
> allocated any IPv4 address space prior to the Exhaustion phase.
>
> There is a definition for Critical Infrastructure Provider.
> However, there is no mention of them in the policy. Are they
> covered by the Soft landing policy?
>
> "A /16 IPv4 address block will be in reserve out of the last /8
> pool. This
> /16 IPv4 address block shall be preserved by AfriNIC for some
> future uses,
> as yet unforeseen."
>
> I suggest using "reserved" instead of preserved.
>
> Regards,
> -sm
>
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 09:10:52 -0700
From: SM <sm at resistor.net>
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Re: rpd Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2
To: "Adiel A. Akplogan" <adiel at afrinic.net>
Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090516090926.027cf318 at resistor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi Adiel,
At 02:06 15-05-2009, Adiel A. Akplogan wrote:
>an up to date analysis of the allocations trend for the past
>10 years and an updated version of the document available at:
>http://www.afrinic.net/news/ipv4_exhaustion.htm
>
>will be circulated soon. In the mean time some raw data can
>be accessed at:
Thanks. Could you post an announcement once an updated version is available?
Regards,
-sm
------------------------------
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