<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The re-ordering is being done <span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">when an object is created or updated. We could simply stop doing it.</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Kind regards,</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><b class="">Yogesh Chadee</b></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Applications Unit Manager, <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/" class="">AFRINIC Ltd.</a></div></div></div>+230 403 5100</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 17 Dec 2019, at 19:28, Ben Maddison via DBWG <<a href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class="">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Given that other databases present attributes in the way that Patrick is requesting, it's hard to imagine a scenario where making this behavior change would break any user implementations.<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">I agree that the reordering does render the remarks attribute fairly useless for its typical purpose.<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">However, since this is (?) a purely cosmetic issue, I wouldn't recommend spending anything other than minimal cycles changing it. Perhaps staff could provide guidance on the kind of work this would require.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Fwiw yet another obscure query flag seems an utter waste of time to me.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Cheers,<br class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Ben<br class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span id="OutlookSignature" class=""><div dir="auto" style="direction: ltr; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Get<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Outlook for Android</a></div></span><br class=""></div><hr tabindex="-1" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; width: 492.9375px;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Patrick Holahan <<a href="mailto:patrickh@tenet.ac.za" class="">patrickh@tenet.ac.za</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:06:46 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" class="">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class="">dbwg@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class="">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" class="">whois.afrinic.net</a> IRR DB</font><div class=""> </div></div><div lang="EN-ZA" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="x_WordSection1"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Hi Nishal,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Unfortunately the response 3 months after the initial request only stated the below:</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><snip></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">Hello Mr. Holahan,</span><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""></span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">I hope this email finds you well. Thank you for your valuable feedback and I am</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">sorry it went unanswered for so long.</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">I see you write remarks about certain fields (in this case members:) on the</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">following line when creating an object (in this case as-set:), and you expect</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">the WHOIS output to therefore respect the order of fields as they were</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">originally created for the remarks to be meaningful.</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">If we modify the default behaviour, it will affect all users of the WHOIS. We</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">could instead add a flag to make this happen, as you rightly suggested.</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">However, for this change of behaviour of the WHOIS service, I would ask you to</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">report the difficulties you are encountering along with your proposed solutions</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">to the Database Working Group for consensus on the way forward:</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""><a href="https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg" title="https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg</a></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""></snip></span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Regards </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""></span></div><table class="x_MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody class=""><tr style="height: 35pt;" class=""><td width="627" valign="top" style="width: 470.45pt; border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: windowtext; padding: 0cm 5.4pt; height: 35pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Patrick Holahan</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> (TENET)</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Mobile: +27(79)523-5555 Fault Reporting: <a href="mailto:+27(21)763-7147" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">+27(21)763-7147</span></a> or <a href="mailto:support@tenet.ac.za" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class="">support@tenet.ac.za</span></a></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></p></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span></p><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span></p><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" class="">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, 17 December 2019 at 16:53<br class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Patrick Holahan <<a href="mailto:patrickh@tenet.ac.za" class="">patrickh@tenet.ac.za</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><<a href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class="">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" class="">whois.afrinic.net</a> IRR DB</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 17 Dec 2019, at 16:45, Patrick Holahan wrote:</div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><blockquote id="x_MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 4.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi DB WG folk,</div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I was advised to forward the below email through here along with an</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">explanation as to why I wish it to work this way.</div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think the email is pretty self-explanatory, advising that the order</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">of the RIPE DB shows remarks in the order they were added to the</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">object, rather than moving them and grouping them together. This</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">allows you to understand what remark links with what part of the</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">object.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">this looks like a reasonable request.</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">in addition to “take it to dbwg”, were you given any other comments.</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">like why this could not be implemented? or what problems it would</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">create for the implementors?</div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">—n.</div></div><div class=""><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">DBWG mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:DBWG@afrinic.net" class="">DBWG@afrinic.net</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>