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    Hi Ben,<br>
    <br>
    I confirm it would be very easy to disable.<br>
    For those who need to have the attributes ordered, we could do it on
    the fly with a query option (ex: -o or --order-attributes).<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Michel<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/12/2019 11:29, Ben Maddison via
      DBWG wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VI1P190MB06058A860BBC19947EFC142FC0530@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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        If that is as simple as Yogesh seems to be describing, I would
        support.<br>
        <br>
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        Cheers,<br>
        <br>
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        Ben<br>
        <br>
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            Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook
              for Android</a></div>
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      <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
          face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Yogesh
          Chadee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yogesh@afrinic.net"><yogesh@afrinic.net></a><br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 18, 2019 8:48:50 AM<br>
          <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net">dbwg@afrinic.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net"><dbwg@afrinic.net></a><br>
          <b>Cc:</b> Patrick Holahan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:patrickh@tenet.ac.za"><patrickh@tenet.ac.za></a>;
          Nishal Goburdhan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za"><nishal@controlfreak.co.za></a>; Ben
          Maddison <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:benm@workonline.africa"><benm@workonline.africa></a><br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within
          whois.afrinic.net IRR DB</font>
        <div> </div>
      </div>
      <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
        line-break:after-white-space">Hi,
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">The re-ordering is being done <span class=""
            style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">when an object is
            created or updated. We could simply stop doing it.</span></div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Kind regards,</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class="" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
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              <div class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">
                    <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word"><b
                        class="">Yogesh Chadee</b></div>
                    <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Applications
                      Unit Manager, <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/"
                        class="" moz-do-not-send="true">AFRINIC Ltd.</a></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                +230 403 5100</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
            <br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
            <br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
          </div>
          <div><br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On 17 Dec 2019, at 19:28, Ben Maddison via
                DBWG <<a href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div>
              <br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
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                  Given that other databases present attributes in the
                  way that Patrick is requesting, it's hard to imagine a
                  scenario where making this behavior change would break
                  any user implementations.<br class="">
                </div>
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                  I agree that the reordering does render the remarks
                  attribute fairly useless for its typical purpose.<br
                    class="">
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                  However, since this is (?) a purely cosmetic issue, I
                  wouldn't recommend spending anything other than
                  minimal cycles changing it. Perhaps staff could
                  provide guidance on the kind of work this would
                  require.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
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                  Fwiw yet another obscure query flag seems an utter
                  waste of time to me.<span
                    class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                  <br class="">
                </div>
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                  Cheers,<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                </div>
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                  Ben<br class="">
                  <br class="">
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                  <font class="" style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
                    sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b><span
                      class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Patrick
                    Holahan <<a href="mailto:patrickh@tenet.ac.za"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">patrickh@tenet.ac.za</a>><br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Sent:</b><span
                      class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
                    December 17, 2019 5:06:46 PM<br class="">
                    <b class="">To:</b><span
                      class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nishal
                    Goburdhan <<a
                      href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Cc:</b><span
                      class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                      href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true">dbwg@afrinic.net</a> <<a
                      href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>><br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Subject:</b><span
                      class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [DBWG]
                    Order of DBM objects within
                    <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true">whois.afrinic.net</a> IRR
                    DB</font>
                  <div class=""> </div>
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                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
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                      <span class="">Hi Nishal,<span
                          class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <span class=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="">Unfortunately the response 3 months
                        after the initial request only stated the below:</span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <span class=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
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                      <span class=""><snip></span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">Hello Mr. Holahan,</span><span
                        class="" style=""></span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <span class="" style=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">I hope this email finds
                        you well. Thank you for your valuable feedback
                        and I am</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">sorry it went unanswered
                        for so long.</span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <span class="" style=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">I see you write remarks
                        about certain fields (in this case members:) on
                        the</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">following line when
                        creating an object (in this case as-set:), and
                        you expect</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">the WHOIS output to
                        therefore respect the order of fields as they
                        were</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">originally created for the
                        remarks to be meaningful.</span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
                      0.0001pt; font-size:11pt;
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                      <span class="" style=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">If we modify the default
                        behaviour, it will affect all users of the
                        WHOIS. We</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">could instead add a flag
                        to make this happen, as you rightly suggested.</span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <span class="" style=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">However, for this change
                        of behaviour of the WHOIS service, I would ask
                        you to</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">report the difficulties
                        you are encountering along with your proposed
                        solutions</span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style="">to the Database Working
                        Group for consensus on the way forward:</span></div>
                    <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
                      0.0001pt; font-size:11pt;
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                      <span class="" style=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class="" style=""><a
                          href="https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg"
title="https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg" class=""
                          style="color:rgb(5,99,193);
                          text-decoration:underline"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/committees/database-wg</a></span></div>
                    <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                      font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                      <span class=""></snip></span></div>
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                      <span class=""> </span></p>
                    <div class="">
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                        <span class="" style="">Regards </span><span
                          class="" style="font-size:12pt"></span></div>
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                                <b class=""><span class=""
                                    style="font-size:12pt">Patrick
                                    Holahan</span></b><span class=""
                                  style="font-size:12pt"> (TENET)</span></div>
                              <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                                <span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Mobile:
                                  +27(79)523-5555 Fault Reporting: <a
                                    href="mailto:+27(21)763-7147"
                                    class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);
                                    text-decoration:underline"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                      class=""
                                      style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">+27(21)763-7147</span></a> or <a
                                    href="mailto:support@tenet.ac.za"
                                    class="" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);
                                    text-decoration:underline"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                      class=""
                                      style="color:rgb(31,78,121)">support@tenet.ac.za</span></a></span></div>
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                        <b class=""><span class=""
                            style="font-size:12pt">From:<span
                              class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span
                          class="" style="font-size:12pt">Nishal
                          Goburdhan <<a
                            href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br
                            class="">
                          <b class="">Date:<span
                              class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday,
                          17 December 2019 at 16:53<br class="">
                          <b class="">To:<span
                              class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Patrick
                          Holahan <<a
                            href="mailto:patrickh@tenet.ac.za" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">patrickh@tenet.ac.za</a>><br
                            class="">
                          <b class="">Cc:<span
                              class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><<a
                            href="mailto:dbwg@afrinic.net" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">dbwg@afrinic.net</a>><br
                            class="">
                          <b class="">Subject:<span
                              class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re:
                          [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within
                          <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">whois.afrinic.net</a>
                          IRR DB</span></div>
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                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        On 17 Dec 2019, at 16:45, Patrick Holahan wrote:</div>
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                    <blockquote
                      id="x_x_MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
                      class="" style="border-style:none none none solid;
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                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
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                          Hi DB WG folk,</div>
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                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          I was advised to forward the below email
                          through here along with an</div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          explanation as to why I wish it to work this
                          way.</div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          I think the email is pretty self-explanatory,
                          advising that the order</div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          of the RIPE DB shows remarks in the order they
                          were added to the</div>
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                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          object, rather than moving them and grouping
                          them together. This</div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          allows you to understand what remark links
                          with what part of the</div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                          font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          object.</div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
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                      <p class="x_x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
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                    <div class="">
                      <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        this looks like a reasonable request.</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        in addition to “take it to dbwg”, were you given
                        any other comments.</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        like why this could not be implemented?  or what
                        problems it would</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        create for the implementors?</div>
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                      <div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                        font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                        —n.</div>
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                <span class="" style="font-family:Verdana;
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                  text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
                  white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px;
                  text-decoration:none; float:none;
                  display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br
                  class="" style="font-family:Verdana; font-size:18px;
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                  font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
                  text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
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                <span class="" style="font-family:Verdana;
                  font-size:18px; font-style:normal;
                  font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal;
                  letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start;
                  text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
                  white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px;
                  text-decoration:none; float:none;
                  display:inline!important">DBWG mailing list</span><br
                  class="" style="font-family:Verdana; font-size:18px;
                  font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal;
                  font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
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                <span class="" style="font-family:Verdana;
                  font-size:18px; font-style:normal;
                  font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal;
                  letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start;
                  text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
                  white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px;
                  text-decoration:none; float:none;
                  display:inline!important"><a
                    href="mailto:DBWG@afrinic.net" class=""
                    moz-do-not-send="true">DBWG@afrinic.net</a></span><br
                  class="" style="font-family:Verdana; font-size:18px;
                  font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal;
                  font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
                  text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
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                <span class="" style="font-family:Verdana;
                  font-size:18px; font-style:normal;
                  font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal;
                  letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start;
                  text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
                  white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px;
                  text-decoration:none; float:none;
                  display:inline!important"><a
                    href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg"
                    class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg</a></span></div>
            </blockquote>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
DBWG mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:DBWG@afrinic.net">DBWG@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg</a>
</pre>
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