From geier at geier.ne.tz  Thu Jan  2 06:03:08 2020
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 09:03:08 +0300
Subject: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within whois.afrinic.net IRR DB
In-Reply-To: <448CD2F6-B547-438A-989B-E2CF2B56DB00@controlfreak.co.za>
References: <B7D0979A-59A1-4158-A5D9-8D2E5741AC1A@tenet.ac.za>
 <E567DB5E-8929-49C2-B4FE-0FE77363BC4E@controlfreak.co.za>
 <1C3B45E1-77DF-4D93-A75D-98BFE615F56A@tenet.ac.za>
 <VI1P190MB060586FB7DD8AA4EEDB2C708C0500@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <7B799F8E-0B16-45DF-80AD-012734D2BB41@afrinic.net>
 <VI1P190MB06058A860BBC19947EFC142FC0530@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <c136d0bf-f8ca-3589-be18-0c83f36cca55@afrinic.net>
 <c4a3ddb4a9fc89e17542a269250a59d8a5a7725f.camel@workonline.africa>
 <448CD2F6-B547-438A-989B-E2CF2B56DB00@controlfreak.co.za>
Message-ID: <5cd76007-dfa4-f251-7855-8d34931f11c6@geier.ne.tz>

Hi,

sorry, for the long silence from my side.

<no-hat>
The current situation with auto-reordering appears to be
- not in line with other IRRs
- hence unexpected by some or many or most users (non-intuitive)

It limits the options to create objects as desired.
If we'd stop the auto-reordering, and a user wishes to have sorted
objects, they can do the sorting themselves.
</no-hat>

Thanks to Patrick for bringing this up.
Thanks to AfriNIC staff for confirming that this an easy change.

I trust we've agreed that the change should go ahead.
I believe we don't need to keep the auto-reordering available as an option.

Since this changes default-behaviour, Nishal is making a valid point
(see below) about informing and warning users about this change.

I will work with Staff to email an announcement of the change to the
members list [correct list, right?]
- approx 1 weeks before change, and
- after change is done

And we should
- update the manual [1]
    (https://afrinic.net/support/whois/reference-manual)
  which - i noticed now - seems to need a lot of love
- add a FAQ entry (https://afrinic.net/support/whois/whois-faq)

Hope this is ok,
please let me have your inputs.

Thanks,
Frank
as chair


[1] actually, "2.2.1 Object processing" and 2.2.2 and 2.2.3 seem to
imply that the auto-reordering is not done....
Yes, the links to html anchors from the ToC on top of the page are not
working.... :-(


On 20/12/2019 12:05, Nishal Goburdhan wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2019, at 19:25, Ben Maddison via DBWG wrote:
> 
>>> For those who need to have the attributes ordered, we could do it on
>>> the fly with a query option (ex: -o or --order-attributes).
>>>
>> I wouldn't bother with that. I can see no use-case, and it clutters the
>> docs ;-)
> 
> it does not seem to me that providing an alternative to people that
> might still want this, is a lot of work either, so i do not see the harm
> in leaving this for people that want it.? unless, afrinic says
> implementing this is tough ..
> and, procedurally, if you plan to deprecate re-ordering (the existing
> default behaviour) you?d need to at least write that up, with a big
> warning label that says : ?the default behaviour has changed?, with
> sufficient notice, and why.
> 
> i?m sure the chair will step in to correct me at some point ..
> 
> i don?t intend to hold up what seems to me to be a trivial thing.? but
> in the interests of Doing It Correctly, for when you need to change the
> default behaviour of a not-so-trivial thing, well, you see where i am
> going with this ..
> 
> ?n.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> DBWG mailing list
> DBWG at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg


From benm at workonline.africa  Thu Jan  2 06:39:21 2020
From: benm at workonline.africa (Ben Maddison)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 06:39:21 +0000
Subject: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within whois.afrinic.net IRR DB
In-Reply-To: <5cd76007-dfa4-f251-7855-8d34931f11c6@geier.ne.tz>
References: <B7D0979A-59A1-4158-A5D9-8D2E5741AC1A@tenet.ac.za>
 <E567DB5E-8929-49C2-B4FE-0FE77363BC4E@controlfreak.co.za>
 <1C3B45E1-77DF-4D93-A75D-98BFE615F56A@tenet.ac.za>
 <VI1P190MB060586FB7DD8AA4EEDB2C708C0500@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <7B799F8E-0B16-45DF-80AD-012734D2BB41@afrinic.net>
 <VI1P190MB06058A860BBC19947EFC142FC0530@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <c136d0bf-f8ca-3589-be18-0c83f36cca55@afrinic.net>
 <c4a3ddb4a9fc89e17542a269250a59d8a5a7725f.camel@workonline.africa>
 <448CD2F6-B547-438A-989B-E2CF2B56DB00@controlfreak.co.za>,
 <5cd76007-dfa4-f251-7855-8d34931f11c6@geier.ne.tz>
Message-ID: <VI1P190MB06059C9B57EF9B3AC7E75375C0200@VI1P190MB0605.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

That all sounds reasonable to me.
And happy new year :)

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz>
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2020 8:03:08 AM
To: dbwg at afrinic.net <dbwg at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [DBWG] Order of DBM objects within whois.afrinic.net IRR DB

Hi,

sorry, for the long silence from my side.

<no-hat>
The current situation with auto-reordering appears to be
- not in line with other IRRs
- hence unexpected by some or many or most users (non-intuitive)

It limits the options to create objects as desired.
If we'd stop the auto-reordering, and a user wishes to have sorted
objects, they can do the sorting themselves.
</no-hat>

Thanks to Patrick for bringing this up.
Thanks to AfriNIC staff for confirming that this an easy change.

I trust we've agreed that the change should go ahead.
I believe we don't need to keep the auto-reordering available as an option.

Since this changes default-behaviour, Nishal is making a valid point
(see below) about informing and warning users about this change.

I will work with Staff to email an announcement of the change to the
members list [correct list, right?]
- approx 1 weeks before change, and
- after change is done

And we should
- update the manual [1]
    (https://afrinic.net/support/whois/reference-manual)
  which - i noticed now - seems to need a lot of love
- add a FAQ entry (https://afrinic.net/support/whois/whois-faq)

Hope this is ok,
please let me have your inputs.

Thanks,
Frank
as chair


[1] actually, "2.2.1 Object processing" and 2.2.2 and 2.2.3 seem to
imply that the auto-reordering is not done....
Yes, the links to html anchors from the ToC on top of the page are not
working.... :-(


On 20/12/2019 12:05, Nishal Goburdhan wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2019, at 19:25, Ben Maddison via DBWG wrote:
>
>>> For those who need to have the attributes ordered, we could do it on
>>> the fly with a query option (ex: -o or --order-attributes).
>>>
>> I wouldn't bother with that. I can see no use-case, and it clutters the
>> docs ;-)
>
> it does not seem to me that providing an alternative to people that
> might still want this, is a lot of work either, so i do not see the harm
> in leaving this for people that want it.  unless, afrinic says
> implementing this is tough ..
> and, procedurally, if you plan to deprecate re-ordering (the existing
> default behaviour) you?d need to at least write that up, with a big
> warning label that says : ?the default behaviour has changed?, with
> sufficient notice, and why.
>
> i?m sure the chair will step in to correct me at some point ..
>
> i don?t intend to hold up what seems to me to be a trivial thing.  but
> in the interests of Doing It Correctly, for when you need to change the
> default behaviour of a not-so-trivial thing, well, you see where i am
> going with this ..
>
> ?n.
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBWG mailing list
> DBWG at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg

_______________________________________________
DBWG mailing list
DBWG at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/dbwg
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