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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’ve been silent till now on till now on all this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>However, I must say that you’re right that they didn’t violate the CoC, they did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses (slander, defamation, etc., I’m not sure what is the best way to translate it from my Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable illegal acts and not just one).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they are partial and as such contain untrue information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a new one if required.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Note that I don’t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really believe they took very wrong decisions (I’m even still waiting from Board answers on policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with shows a very poor willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate in a productive and efficient manner with the community), but also don’t agree that using partial documents is the way to go.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 28/9/21 18:25, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn’t violate your CoC either as they didn’t post it to your list.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication <<a href="mailto:comms@afrinic.net">comms@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear Nigel,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We thank you for bringing this to our attention.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>AFRINIC Communication<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard <<a href="mailto:nkukard@LBSD.net">nkukard@LBSD.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear community members,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html</a>) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of context?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other on a <u>COMMUNITY</u> mailing list and discussing it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>-N<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: <a href="https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct">https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>AFRINIC Communication<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann <a href="mailto:sander@steffann.nl"><sander@steffann.nl></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hi Omo,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Sander<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>Community-Discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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