Dear AfriNIC's Community, <div><br></div><div>Please see my comments below, inline...<br><br>Le mardi 3 août 2021, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> a écrit :<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>Dear AfriNIC's Community,<div><br>Please see my comments below, inline...<br><br>Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>Dear AfriNIC's Community,<br><br>Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><wbr>> a écrit :<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div>[...]</blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>You’re not answering the question I asked…</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hi Owen,</div><div>Thanks for your email, brother!</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing addresses without providing connectivity</div><div>services is not?</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, </div><div>called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has</div><div> been refered out there as *Reservations*.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. </div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hi Owen,</div><div>Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother.</div><div><br></div><div>...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually </div><div>use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational</div><div>thread.</div><div> </div><div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hi Owen,</div><div>Thanks for your clarification, brother.</div><div><br></div><div>...so, you try to impose to all others a particular </div><div>theme?</div><div><br></div><div>Please, sir, how can i be removed from your pool?</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>We are talking about deployment on an actual</div><div>host connected to the internet for legitimate use. </div><div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team<wbr>, brother?</div><div><br></div><div>For what it's worth, in order to lease community's </div><div>ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Um, that’s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or</div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks to finally getting my point: you practice </div><div>leasing on INRs, then you violate the RSA+CPM.</div><div><br></div><div>...because you have to *reserve*, given that you don't have any network to address hosts on or </div><div>to define any administrative boundaries for or; </div><div>so any distinctive routing policy to document...</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>without connnectivity services attached, so you have</div><div>either pointed out how we are identical to every other</div><div>LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called</div><div>into question the standard practice of every LIR.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>...straw man fallacy?</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>I’m not sure which is intended.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come <br></div><div>to the Registration Service to request the needed <br></div><div>INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We don’t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users</div><div>or clients from seeking internet number resources from any</div><div>other source.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...please, sir, could you share your stats on the number of orgs, you have helped to become LIR </div><div>since the time your org shipted from LIR to INRs </div><div>seller? mini-RIR? or Global LIR? RFC7020 states:</div><div><br></div><div>~°~</div><div>[...]</div><div><pre class="newpage" style="font-size:10.6667px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">In
cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have
established relationships with multiple RIRs.</pre></div><div>[...]</div><div>~°~</div><div><br></div><div>...full part:</div><div><br></div><div>~°~</div><div><pre class="newpage" style="font-size:10.6667px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Local IRs
Local Internet Registries (LIRs) are established through a
relationship with the body from which they received their
addresses, typically the RIR that serves the region in which they
operate, a parent LIR, or other number-allocating entity. In
cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have
established relationships with multiple RIRs. LIRs perform IP
address allocation services for their customers, typically ISPs,
end users, or child LIRs (also known as "sub-LIRs").</pre></div><div>~°~</div><div><<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020</a>></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>...this comes from your client's website:</div><div><br></div><div>~°~</div><div>[...] PROFESSIONAL SERVICE </div><div>RIR Membership Management Service: Own Your IP Assets</div><div><span style="color:inherit;font-family:inherit;font-size:38px;letter-spacing:5px;text-align:center">RIR MEMBERSHIP MANAGEMENT SERVICE</span></div><div><span style="text-align:center"><br></span></div><div><span style="text-align:center">LARUS will help you to become a RIR member and obtain your own IPv4 addresses for now and your future needs. With this specialized end-to-end solution, you will minimize the utilization risk, financial risk and policy risk. The IPv4 addresses become your asset and generate extra value for you.</span></div><div><span style="text-align:center">[...]</span></div><div><h2 style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:500;line-height:75px;color:rgb(46,162,213);margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:18px;letter-spacing:1px;text-align:center;background-color:rgb(247,250,253)">Much Lower Cost</h2><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 10px;font-size:14px;color:grey;line-height:25px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;text-align:center;background-color:rgb(247,250,253)">The cost will be as low as 1/10 of the cost of getting the IP addresses from the transfer market. They will become your asset and generate revenue with new business and service. Owning your IP addresses will protect you from the surge of IP address cost in the future.</p></div><div>[...]</div><div>~°~</div><div><<a href="https://www.larus.net/rir-membershop-management-service">https://www.larus.net/rir-membershop-management-service</a>></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div> </div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's <br></div><div>service region...they would save a lot of money </div><div>comparing to what could be otherwise payed to </div><div>an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*...<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for</div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>~°~</div><div>[...]</div><div><pre class="newpage" style="font-size:10.6667px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">In
cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have
established relationships with multiple RIRs.</pre></div><div>[...]</div><div>~°~</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and</div><div>more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to</div><div>indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient</div><div>distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or</div><div>NIR (National).</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...brother, are you lieing?</div><div><br></div><div>Please see the bit of texts from RFC7020, pasted </div><div>above... :'-(</div><div><br></div><div>...i don't forget that it's, for you an *INRs War* </div><div>against the RFC7020; thus against the entire </div><div>Internet Numbers Registry System.</div><div><br></div><div>Allow me to stop here.</div><div><br></div><div>Shalom, </div><div>--sb. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet Registry) but all are LIRs (Local </div><div>Internet Registries) established/approved to serve </div><div>their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the whole AfriNIC's service </div><div>region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here.</div><div><br></div><div>There is nothing in AFRINIC’s governing documents which prohibits</div><div>its resource members from deploying their business across the entire</div><div>planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations</div><div>to the appropriate governing document(s).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>The difference… The only difference… Is that the</div><div>connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...if...then, please see above!</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>If what?</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the notion of valid assignments </div><div>and SAW.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud Innovation makes assignments</div><div>and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply.</div><div><br></div><div>As to “valid assignments” where is it that you think these are defined? Which section of the CPM</div><div>do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments valid?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>...icymi, please see here: </div><div><<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013424.html" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pip<wbr>ermail/rpd/2021/013424.html</a>></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>[...]</div><div><br></div><div>Owen </div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>[...]</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div>
<br><br>-- <br>--<p>Best Regards !<br>__<br>baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br>Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br>__<br>#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!»<br>#MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br>«Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br><br></p>