<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Arnaud,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I assure you that I write each and every message I post by myself.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The so called evidence others have produced is not evidence of anything other than their own misapplication of the text in question.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have refuted each and every piece of so-called evidence in a clear and consistent manner. Even you agree that there is consistency</div><div class="">to my arguments.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You claim that they are my errors of understanding, I believe them to be yours.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are people who agree with me and people who appear to somehow agree with you about this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have broken down the context, meaning, and structure of each and every so-called element in an effort to aid in the plain text understanding of the slices of the various governing documents.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Interestingly, people on your side just keep citing the same provisions, without making any effort to explain how it is they come to the conclusion that their meaning is so different from their wording. I have at least shown how I come to the conclusion that their wording and meaning are aligned in the manner I have expressed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have long doubted the value in replying to you, yet I do my best to respect you enough to attempt to provide a cogent rebuttal to each of your arguments. To the best of my knowledge, I have never engaged in ad hominem against you or any of your colleagues, despite your repeated use of ad hominem in an effort to imply that I am somehow incorrect or untrustworthy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please, let us proceed as gentlemen with mutual respect. I don’t agree with you. I think you are badly misguided in your interpretation of the policy documents. Nonetheless, i have at all times treated you with respect and I have not once questioned your legitimate allegiance to the community. Even if you believe that my opinion is not correct, I think you are hard pressed to make any valid claim that I am not legitimately representing what I believe to be the true interests of the community and the internet as a whole.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 3, 2021, at 00:02 , Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Chers membres d la communauté<div dir="auto" class="">Ne voyez-vous pas que Owen se paie notre tête (expression francophone j'ignore si ça existe en anglais). Il répète le même refrain tout le temps comme Fernando l'a fait remarquer. Malgré toutes les preuves à lui fourni par tous les autres contributeurs il répète les même choses, maintenant je viens à douter que même lui n'est pas auteur de ses différents textes qu'il postes, parce que sans aucune cohérence avec les autres contributions qui lui ont répondu. Rien que de la répétition argumentaires comme si nous n'avons que ça à faire. Eux , ils sont payer pour produire ces genres de documents toute la journée, lui et ses echochambers. Je ne juge même plus utile de le lui répondre , tellement il répète les mêmes erreurs de compréhension. On dirait qu'il veut se convaincre que ce qu'il dit est juste et véridique, car lui-même n'en est pas encore convaincu.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">English </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Dear community members</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""> Can't you see that Owen is "paying our head " (French expression I don't know if it exists in English). He repeats the same refrain all the time as Fernando pointed out. Despite all the evidence provided to him by all the other contributors, he repeats the same things, now I doubt that even him, is not the author of the various texts that he posts, because without any consistency with the others contributions answering him. Nothing but repeating arguments as if we have only that to do. They are paid to produce these kinds of documents all day long, with his echochambers. I no longer even consider it useful to answer him, because he is repeating the same errors of understanding. It looks like he wants to convince himself that what he is saying is right and true, because himself is not yet convinced.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">--</div><div dir="auto" class="">Arnaud</div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 3 août 2021 à 04:00, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class="">Dear AfriNIC's Community,<div class=""><br class="">Please see my comments below, inline...<br class=""><br class="">Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> a écrit :<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class="">Dear AfriNIC's Community,<br class=""><br class="">Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><br class=""></div>[...]</blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>You’re not answering the question I asked…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hi Owen,</div><div class="">Thanks for your email, brother!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing addresses without providing connectivity</div><div class="">services is not?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, </div><div class="">called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has</div><div class=""> been refered out there as *Reservations*.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hi Owen,</div><div class="">Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually </div><div class="">use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational</div><div class="">thread.</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ </div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We are talking about deployment on an actual</div><div class="">host connected to the internet for legitimate use. </div><div class=""> </div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For what it's worth, in order to lease community's </div><div class="">ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first;</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Um, that’s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or</div><div class="">without connnectivity services attached, so you have</div><div class="">either pointed out how we are identical to every other</div><div class="">LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called</div><div class="">into question the standard practice of every LIR.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m not sure which is intended.</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come <br class=""></div><div class="">to the Registration Service to request the needed <br class=""></div><div class="">INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: </div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>We don’t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users</div><div class="">or clients from seeking internet number resources from any</div><div class="">other source.</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's <br class=""></div><div class="">service region...they would save a lot of money </div><div class="">comparing to what could be otherwise payed to </div><div class="">an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*...<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for</div><div class="">example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and</div><div class="">more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to</div><div class="">indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient</div><div class="">distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or</div><div class="">NIR (National).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet Registry) but all are LIRs (Local </div><div class="">Internet Registries) established/approved to serve </div><div class="">their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the whole AfriNIC's service </div><div class="">region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking.<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There is nothing in AFRINIC’s governing documents which prohibits</div><div class="">its resource members from deploying their business across the entire</div><div class="">planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations</div><div class="">to the appropriate governing document(s).</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">The difference… The only difference… Is that the</div><div class="">connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...if...then, please see above!</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>If what?</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the notion of valid assignments </div><div class="">and SAW.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud Innovation makes assignments</div><div class="">and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As to “valid assignments” where is it that you think these are defined? Which section of the CPM</div><div class="">do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments valid?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">...icymi, please see here: </div><div class=""><<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013424.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013424.html</a>></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>How is this relevant to this case?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">5.5.1.1.3 is about transfers — Does not apply here.</div><div class="">5.5.1.2.3 is about efficiency. — Cloud Innovations utilization fraction is extremely efficient.</div><div class="">5.5.1.3 is about slow start — how AFRINIC goes about allocating to LIRs — Does not apply here.</div><div class="">5.5.1.4.1 is about utilization percentage required to request more space from AFRINIC — We are not applying for additional space, so this does not apply here.</div><div class="">5.5.1.4.2 is about reservations — No reservations are being made. In this context, the term reservation is used to reference</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>a situation where an LIR has set aside a group of addresses not actually deployed on hosts and attempts to claim that those</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>addresses set aside in that manner are utilized for the purposes of calculating the utilization percentage in 5.5.1.4.1.</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Since 5.5.1.4.1 does not apply in this situation, and we are not making any such reservations, 5.5.1.4.2 does not apply, either.</div><div class="">5.5.1.7 We have, in fact, complied with all documentation requirements.</div><div class="">5.5.1.8 We are an LIR and not an end users, so not sure how you consider this relevant, please enlighten.</div><div class="">5.5.1.9 Utilization — We have properly reported our utilization through WHOIS at all times. </div><div class="">5.5.1.10 Reservations — Again — We are not making reservations, so this does not apply.</div><div class="">5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment — We enforce this upon the assignments we make. We have also updated</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>AFRINIC as the nature of our assignments changed.</div><div class="">5.5.1.13 Suballocation window — We are not making sub allocations, so this does not apply.</div><div class="">5.5.1.13.2 — See 5.5.1.13 above</div><div class="">5.5.1.13.3 — See 5.5.1.13 above</div><div class="">5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping — We have kept all records required under this provision and have provided same to AFIRNIC whenever</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>a sufficiently specific request to identify the desired documents has been received.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, not a selective reading at all… A very detailed reading.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">copy -> paste:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class=""><tl;dr></span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Please accept to read it...</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">...i did it with the naive expectation that it</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">could help the PDWG to move forward</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">on some recuring topics, such as</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Internet number resources (at least for</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">particular attention:</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">¿°?</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">from their upstream provider.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">assignments and/or sub-allocations.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">sub-allocations.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.7 Documentation</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.9 Utilisation</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW)</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">seeking approval from AFRINIC.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW:</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">¿°?</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Thanks.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class=""></tl;dr></span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Source: <</span><a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#lir-isp-allocation" style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#lir-isp-allocation</a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">></span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Please read again the CPM at section 5:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class="">[...]<br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">assignments and/or sub-allocations.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">• 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">sub-allocations.</span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">[...]</span></div><div class="">~°~</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Yep… that’s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation independent of</div><div class="">connectivity services, that’s a prohibition of addresses not being attached to hosts.</div><div class=""> </div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...don't divide/separate the tools, please.</div><div class="">It's not allowed. The implementers use it all:</div><div class="">Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's </div><div class="">service region. </div><div class="">Do you want to change something?</div><div class="">...you know how to try!</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">It’s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Are you serious?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...going further, along with what i wrote above, note </div><div class="">that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be </div><div class="">the best description of leasing...of INRs.</div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Nope… It’s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in 5.5.1.4.2) refers</div></blockquote><div class=""> </div><div class=""> </div><div class="">...i'm already convinced it is!</div><div class="">You shall accept it as is :-)</div><div class="">Do you want to change it?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">to addresses set aside for later use…Addresses not currently assigned to active hosts.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...your words, mine :-/</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">sub-allocations.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">additional allocation.</span><br class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...my understanding of *reservation* include yours.</div><div class="">Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not </div><div class="">change that. Feel free to try with other tactics...<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are assigned to hosts active</div><div class="">on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a different provider than</div><div class="">they are getting the addresses from.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's </div><div class="">service region , you should understand it...but feel </div><div class="">free to keep your business logic...describing it as </div><div class="">you want, will not change what it is in reality...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">CPM sections <span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">5.5.1.10 & </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">5.5.1.11</span> say:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">considered unused.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:inherit" class="">has changed or no longer holds.</span><br style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""></div><div class="">~°~</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with </div><div class="">the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full </div><div class="">section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*.</div><div class="">__</div><div class="">[1]: <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html</a>></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Those who are charged to implement the CPM have</div><div class=""> indicated the same. Could you, please, show us </div><div class="">where the CPM allows it?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not what it actually says.</div><div class="">I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting leasing, but perhaps</div><div class="">their reference escaped me at some point.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not prohibited is permitted implicitly.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...permitted where? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please try, then come back with your results.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive connectivity services from</div><div class="">the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent assignment is inherently</div><div class="">permitted and this is the current state.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...the current course is otherwise, and you know it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users within its own service region...</div><div class="">it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to </div><div class="">serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready </div><div class="">to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM, </div><div class="">the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that </div><div class="">AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries) or *Global* End-Users.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As long as there is no mention of the existence of </div><div class="">GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall </div><div class="">understand that out-of-region assignments or </div><div class="">sub-allocations could not be the normal trend...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i'm awaiting :-/</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding unused addresses,</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You expect me to understand what?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...please see above and get my answer from there.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses that are actually </div><div class="">in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...don't mix problems, do fill your complain </div><div class="">appropriately, please, and the community </div><div class="">shall address it usual.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free </div><div class="">to continue to support some wrong doings...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Have a blessed monday!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Shalom,</div><div class="">--sb.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Shalom,</div><div class="">--sb.</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR <b class="">Cloud Innovation Limited</b> with offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class=""><a href="https://bgp.he.net/country/SC" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://bgp.he.net/country/SC</a><br class=""></b></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>And?</div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">[...]</div></div></blockquote></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><br class="">-- <br class="">--<p class="">Best Regards !<br class="">__<br class="">baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br class="">Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br class="">__<br class="">#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!»<br class="">#MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br class="">«Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br class=""><br class=""></p>
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