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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I need to disagree with some of your points here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The transfer proposal was wrongly managed by the chairs, I’m convinced that they did in good faith. A proposal, can’t return once and again with non-editorial changes to the discussion and sustain the consensus decision.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There is no discussion about that. An independent re-call committee decided that, despite the numerous warnings, the chairs continued interpreting the PDP in their own way.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Further to that, not sure to understand way, the actual chairs haven’t resent the proposal report to the Board because, we like it or not, reached consensus (according to the previous chairs decision) to the board for ratification.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I believe the chairs are interpreting, wrongly in my opinion, that they shall “hold” a proposal under appeal, until the AC takes a decision. I’m convinced, as other members of the community, that it is in the hands of the Board to hold the ratification until the appeal is resolved, not the chairs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Could the chairs explain how they can interpret that they shall not send a proposal for ratification because it is under appeal or if they are still working on the report? (I understood they will finish it by end of June)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 1/8/21 21:49, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>- let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Noah<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>PS: confusion of the highest order.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Who is confused, Noah?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out of AFRINIC service region. There is some confusion there.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I don’t think he’s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context in which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which circumstances have changed today.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the board to merely ratify<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>the existing consensus RTP,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Says Owen who recently on<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>cautioned the same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Yes… Difference is that there’s arguably no valid appeal standing against RTP.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Co-chairs declared consensus.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Appeal submitted<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs. Thus this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>I refer you to the archives <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html</a></b><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>Jordi</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'> </span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>><i> I’ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only patience is needed.</i><br><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>Owen</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'><br><b>Jordi</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>><i> The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until the appeal is resolved. That’s it.</i><br><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>Owen</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Times'>: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in<br>this current board.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Nope… But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to fail to grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you mention above.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>but Andrew’s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>How did you measure this 75%’s opinions? Please do tell.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Further, what do members have to do with policy? Policy is under the control of the community. Members get control of the board and the bylaws.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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