<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Ubah,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I see you are at it again with gas lighting and insinuations. The thread is still open and clearly community members still have input. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">@Lili Au, please do not get intimidated by bogus open ended questions. Kindly share with the community whatever information you feel is pertinent to the discussion at hand.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">Murungi Daniel </div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 27, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Antone Ubah <<a href="mailto:blackboythinking@gmail.com" class="">blackboythinking@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Oh Noah,<div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">'Afraid' you say? Of what? Of whom? What are my stakes? What are your stakes?</div><div dir="auto" class="">There is an ongoing legal process between parties involved, am I wrong? If anyone or group has input to that, is it not right to funnel such down the appropriate channels?</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Or are you the arm behind the puppets? The grand puppeteer popping up characters to incite friction.🤔</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Then again, what are your stakes?</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Lili is free to air his/her/their views, however it makes sense to do it right, not for commotion sake.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Regards,</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Anthony</div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 8:00 AM Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" class="">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 14:51 Anthony Ubah, <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Didin't <a href="mailto:comms@afrinic.net" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(26,115,232);overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;outline:none;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">comms@afrinic.net</a> already close this thread? <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here's another bait email trolling the community.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Let Lili Au speak. What are you afraid of?</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Comms dont have the authority to close any thread.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">They only cautioned on violation of CoC.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Noah</div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p style="line-height:150%" class=""><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="line-height:150%" class=""><font face="garamond, serif" class="">Best Regards,</font></span></b></p><p style="line-height:150%" class=""><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="line-height:150%" class="">Anthony</span></span></b><br class=""></font></p></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 5:45 AM Lili Au <<a href="mailto:au8692936@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">au8692936@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">A funny discussion. Anyway, I saw many LOA that is CI authorise LARUS ( a Hong Kong company too) then LARUS authorise to their clients. Leo is correct.<br class="">
<br class="">
—<br class="">
<br class="">
> Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>>於2021年7月27日 15:32寫道：<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Hi,<br class="">
> <br class="">
> did any of those make any commitment like "we are using these to connect<br class="">
> our customers in Africa" ?<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Did CI?<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Thanks,<br class="">
> Frank<br class="">
> <br class="">
> PS: I count connectivity to a VM hosted by CI as ok, but not leasing<br class="">
> just the IP to an entity without providing them any connectivity.<br class="">
> <br class="">
>> On 27/07/2021 08:24, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote:<br class="">
>> If you think this is a shocking amount of address space, please consider<br class="">
>> the amount of space<br class="">
>> held by:<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> Non-LIRs (end users):<br class="">
>> Hewlett Packard<br class="">
>> Apple Computer<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> Unclear whether to classify as LIR or not:<br class="">
>> Amateur Radio (AMPR)<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> LIRs:<br class="">
>> XFINITY/Comcast<br class="">
>> Verizon<br class="">
>> Akamai<br class="">
>> XO Communications<br class="">
>> Amazon<br class="">
>> Microsoft<br class="">
>> Google<br class="">
>> etc.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> The equivalent of 1.5 /10s (75% of a /9) is far less than any of the<br class="">
>> above organizations.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> Owen<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> <br class="">
>>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 01:11 , Leo S <<a href="mailto:leoso@afcast.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">leoso@afcast.com</a><br class="">
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:leoso@afcast.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">leoso@afcast.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> Hi Ronald<br class="">
>>> Maybe your number is correct, whether it is 6.3M or 7M,This is a<br class="">
>>> shocking number for everyone especially in 201x such a large block<br class="">
>>> allocated. This is not in 199x year.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:25 AM Ronald F. Guilmette<br class="">
>>> <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> In message<br class="">
>>> <<a href="mailto:CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">CALm9Cbn+R9oen9+9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:CALm9Cbn%252BR9oen9%252B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com</a>>><br class="">
>>> Meriem Dayday <<a href="mailto:meriemdayday@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">meriemdayday@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:meriemdayday@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">meriemdayday@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>>> This is a direct violation of the CoC.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> No, actually, it isn't.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> The information about how Cloud Innovation is presently making use of<br class="">
>>> it's assigned 6,291,456 AFRINIC-administered IPv4 addresses is<br class="">
>>> effectively<br class="">
>>> public information, and it is not difficult to derive from any<br class="">
>>> number of<br class="">
>>> public sources (e.g. RIPEStat, <a href="http://bgp.he.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">bgp.he.net</a> <<a href="http://bgp.he.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://bgp.he.net/</a>>, etc.)<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> If you lived in the time of Galileo Galilei, would you consider it an<br class="">
>>> affront to public decency if some people elected to look through the<br class="">
>>> telescope and then just describe what they saw? And if so, then what<br class="">
>>> is next? Book burning?<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>>> Disclosing such information and data without the company's<br class="">
>>> consent is a<br class="">
>>>> clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the<br class="">
>>>> concerned person.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> OK, let's parse that statement, because it conjoins two different<br class="">
>>> obvious<br class="">
>>> logical problems.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> First, the Internet is *not* a private network. Fact's about what<br class="">
>>> various<br class="">
>>> companies are doing on the Internet are possible to see, and to learn,<br class="">
>>> without needing the consent of the companies inolved. That is the<br class="">
>>> nature<br class="">
>>> of the Internet. If you want to run your own closed private intranet,<br class="">
>>> then go head. Nobody will stop you and you can then keep every last<br class="">
>>> detail of your corporate operations utterly secret. But the<br class="">
>>> minute any<br class="">
>>> company obtains Internet number resources and starts using those, it<br class="">
>>> *voluntarily* gives up some of its corporate secrecy in exchange<br class="">
>>> for being<br class="">
>>> a part of, and a participant on this great communications<br class="">
>>> experiment we<br class="">
>>> call the Internet.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> I personally am not now, and never have been a customer of Cloud<br class="">
>>> Innovation.<br class="">
>>> And yet even well before today I already determined for myself<br class="">
>>> that well<br class="">
>>> more that 90% of Cloud Innovation's assigned AFRINIC-administered IPv4<br class="">
>>> address space was being deployed to other continents. This is not<br class="">
>>> a state<br class="">
>>> secret by any means, and the information may be derived from 100%<br class="">
>>> public<br class="">
>>> sources. Anyone clever enough to seek it out will find the same<br class="">
>>> information.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> Whether the manner in which Cloud Innovation is using/deploying its<br class="">
>>> assigned number resources does or does not comport with its specific<br class="">
>>> RSA and/or with community approved regulations is a separate question,<br class="">
>>> and one which I myself do not have an answer to. In any case, the<br class="">
>>> courts will sort out those questions in due course, I imagine. <br class="">
>>> But the<br class="">
>>> mere facts of how Cloud Innovation has deployed its AFRINIC-assigned<br class="">
>>> resources, or how it would appear to make money, based on the<br class="">
>>> available<br class="">
>>> public evidence, are *not* corporate secrets. Any attempt to portray<br class="">
>>> them as such is just an attempt at heavy-handed censorship.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> The second logical problem with the statement above is contained<br class="">
>>> in the<br class="">
>>> part that says "... attempt of defamation and can have legal<br class="">
>>> consequences<br class="">
>>> on the concerned person."<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> Exactly so! If the guy who posted the material you are reacting<br class="">
>>> to was<br class="">
>>> willing to take the legal risk to post that material, IN SPITE OF the<br class="">
>>> possibility that he could, at least in theory, be sued for defamation,<br class="">
>>> then why are YOU worried about it? Why should AFRINIC be worried<br class="">
>>> about<br class="">
>>> it? Obviously, this (theoretical) possibility of a defemation lawsuit<br class="">
>>> is only a problem for the guy who posted the (allegedly) defamatory<br class="">
>>> text, and he obviiously was willing to take the risk in order to<br class="">
>>> express<br class="">
>>> his opinion, SO WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> Here again, shouting down in the original poster in this manner<br class="">
>>> appears<br class="">
>>> to me to be just another a heavy-handed attempt at pointless<br class="">
>>> censorship.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> I hope that we here can all have open and frank discusions of all<br class="">
>>> of the<br class="">
>>> issues now of concern to AFRINIC without these kinds of attempts to<br class="">
>>> muzzle dissenting viewpoints based on perfectly silly arguments.<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> Regards,<br class="">
>>> rfg<br class="">
>>> <br class="">
>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
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>>> <br class="">
>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
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>> <br class="">
> <br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
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