<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">If you think this is a shocking amount of address space, please consider the amount of space<div class="">held by:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Non-LIRs (end users):</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Hewlett Packard</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Apple Computer</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Unclear whether to classify as LIR or not:</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Amateur Radio (AMPR)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>LIRs:</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>XFINITY/Comcast</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Verizon</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Akamai</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>XO Communications</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Amazon</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Microsoft</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Google</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The equivalent of 1.5 /10s (75% of a /9) is far less than any of the above organizations.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 26, 2021, at 01:11 , Leo S <<a href="mailto:leoso@afcast.com" class="">leoso@afcast.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Ronald<div class="">Maybe your number is correct, whether it is 6.3M or 7M,This is a shocking number for everyone especially in 201x such a large block allocated. This is not in 199x year.<br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:25 AM Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">In message <<a href="mailto:CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">CALm9Cbn+R9oen9+9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Meriem Dayday <<a href="mailto:meriemdayday@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">meriemdayday@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
>This is a direct violation of the CoC.<br class="">
<br class="">
No, actually, it isn't.<br class="">
<br class="">
The information about how Cloud Innovation is presently making use of<br class="">
it's assigned 6,291,456 AFRINIC-administered IPv4 addresses is effectively<br class="">
public information, and it is not difficult to derive from any number of<br class="">
public sources (e.g. RIPEStat, <a href="http://bgp.he.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">bgp.he.net</a>, etc.)<br class="">
<br class="">
If you lived in the time of Galileo Galilei, would you consider it an<br class="">
affront to public decency if some people elected to look through the<br class="">
telescope and then just describe what they saw? And if so, then what<br class="">
is next? Book burning?<br class="">
<br class="">
>Disclosing such information and data without the company's consent is a<br class="">
>clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the<br class="">
>concerned person.<br class="">
<br class="">
OK, let's parse that statement, because it conjoins two different obvious<br class="">
logical problems.<br class="">
<br class="">
First, the Internet is *not* a private network. Fact's about what various<br class="">
companies are doing on the Internet are possible to see, and to learn,<br class="">
without needing the consent of the companies inolved. That is the nature<br class="">
of the Internet. If you want to run your own closed private intranet,<br class="">
then go head. Nobody will stop you and you can then keep every last<br class="">
detail of your corporate operations utterly secret. But the minute any<br class="">
company obtains Internet number resources and starts using those, it<br class="">
*voluntarily* gives up some of its corporate secrecy in exchange for being<br class="">
a part of, and a participant on this great communications experiment we <br class="">
call the Internet.<br class="">
<br class="">
I personally am not now, and never have been a customer of Cloud Innovation.<br class="">
And yet even well before today I already determined for myself that well<br class="">
more that 90% of Cloud Innovation's assigned AFRINIC-administered IPv4<br class="">
address space was being deployed to other continents. This is not a state<br class="">
secret by any means, and the information may be derived from 100% public<br class="">
sources. Anyone clever enough to seek it out will find the same information.<br class="">
<br class="">
Whether the manner in which Cloud Innovation is using/deploying its<br class="">
assigned number resources does or does not comport with its specific<br class="">
RSA and/or with community approved regulations is a separate question,<br class="">
and one which I myself do not have an answer to. In any case, the<br class="">
courts will sort out those questions in due course, I imagine. But the<br class="">
mere facts of how Cloud Innovation has deployed its AFRINIC-assigned<br class="">
resources, or how it would appear to make money, based on the available<br class="">
public evidence, are *not* corporate secrets. Any attempt to portray<br class="">
them as such is just an attempt at heavy-handed censorship.<br class="">
<br class="">
The second logical problem with the statement above is contained in the<br class="">
part that says "... attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences<br class="">
on the concerned person."<br class="">
<br class="">
Exactly so! If the guy who posted the material you are reacting to was<br class="">
willing to take the legal risk to post that material, IN SPITE OF the<br class="">
possibility that he could, at least in theory, be sued for defamation,<br class="">
then why are YOU worried about it? Why should AFRINIC be worried about<br class="">
it? Obviously, this (theoretical) possibility of a defemation lawsuit<br class="">
is only a problem for the guy who posted the (allegedly) defamatory<br class="">
text, and he obviiously was willing to take the risk in order to express<br class="">
his opinion, SO WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?<br class="">
<br class="">
Here again, shouting down in the original poster in this manner appears<br class="">
to me to be just another a heavy-handed attempt at pointless censorship.<br class="">
<br class="">
I hope that we here can all have open and frank discusions of all of the<br class="">
issues now of concern to AFRINIC without these kinds of attempts to<br class="">
muzzle dissenting viewpoints based on perfectly silly arguments.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
rfg<br class="">
<br class="">
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