<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Owen<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Apologies for top-posting …. but this thread is getting over-long.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suspect your suppositions are all correct.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If they are indeed all correct, then it would appear that Mr Wollner is acting as a proxy for CIL and the questions he raised would be more appropriately raised by CIL - either on this list or before a court? These are NOT general questions or comments about AfriNIC governance (which I will be happy to debate) but rather very specific to the current issue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, to me this looks like more astroturfing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Mike<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Jul 2021, at 18:55, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 9, 2021, at 04:27 , Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" class="">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Owen<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was not specifically responding to your comments and in fact I agreed with several of them.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Apologies if I did not make it clear.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>OK… It wasn’t clear and I missed that, I guess. In any case, no offense taken. We’ve been friends for several years and even though we may disagree from time to time, I know you to be a fellow person of honor who also consistently tries to do right and act in the interests and service of the community.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">The board minutes have improved a lot …. but can use a lot more work. The practice of publishing resolutions prior to the minutes being published is also a very good practice - though it may not be satisfying to you and others, as it lacks some of the detail you seem to seek.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>You get no argument from me on this point.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Thank you for confirming that this issue is directly relevant to you (I assume as a consultant to Cloud Innovation?).</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Correct.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Mr Wollner and others have not been as forthright in disclosing their interests …. leading to speculation.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Wollner is CEO of Africa On Cloud, a service provider in South Africa and a resource member of AFRINIC.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">My concern about possible hypocrisy related to this list of questions and the astroturfing that has succeeded it:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""> Which board members agreed to the meeting on short notice? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>How does Mr Wollner know it was at short notice? It may have been a regular meeting for all he knows.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I suspect this is speculation due to the timing (Court ruled just the day before the board met and took this</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">action). I suppose there is the possibility that the timing was coincidental, but surely it is not unreasonable</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">absent other information to assume that the board acting on July 8 in regards to a court order issued on</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">July 7 represents a very rapid convening of said board.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">2. Which board members voted in favor of the motion and which against? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This is never disclosed in minutes. Why is it now relevant but was not a month or a year ago?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>It should be disclosed on all motions, IMHO. It was relevant a month and a year ago and I believe i have</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">raised objection to the lack of this information at several open microphone sessions.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">3. Who tabled and who seconded the motion? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This will appear in the minutes in due course. Why the need for it to be provided on an expedited basis?</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">4. What was the nature and extent of deliberations? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This will appear in the minutes in due course. Why the need for it to be provided on an expedited basis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I can’t speak to Paul’s sense of urgency, but given the unprecedented nature of the situation and the</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">severity of the consequences, i can say that I would certainly prefer to know sooner rather than later.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">5. Why the urgency to act so swiftly after the judge set aside the order? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This may appear in the minutes in due course. The minutes are not uniform in their level of detail. Why the need for it to be provided on an expedited basis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Sure. I only hope that AFRINIC will respond with the same sense of urgency and swiftness of action to the latest order from the courts.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">6. When was the meeting noticed? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This has not appeared in any minutes to date. Why is it now relevant but was not a month or a year ago?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I suspect this isn’t so much about minutes as about understanding how the meeting was convened and whether proper process was followed in this case of an apparently urgent meeting.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">7. When did the meeting take place? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This will appear in the minutes in due course. Why the need for it to be provided on an expedited basis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Among other things, depending on the timeline, it may be evidence that AFRINIC has acted in bad faith and in anticipation of the court order which had not yet been issued. As such, the community has a clear interest in verifying this information.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">8. How/where did the meeting take place? </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>This will appear in the minutes in due course. Why the need for it to be provided on an expedited basis?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I would suspect the same reasons as 7, above. Certainly any board taking such extraordinary and unprecedented actions so swiftly with such large consequences to a member of the organization should expect additional scrutiny of their process from the community/membership, no?</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>