<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 19.5pt 0.0001pt 0cm;vertical-align:baseline;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-HK" style="font-size:11.5pt;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Hello Jordi,<br>
<br>
So the thing is that, since all of the 5 RIRs have transfer policies
(regardless whether they are intraRIR or interRIR), and since no one has ever
applied space for transfer in the history of RIR, then by the very definition
of the transfer policy, the change of purpose is allowed. If in some region
there is some old and obsolete policy text that forbids change of purpose for
usage, then those should be considered invalid because they are directly
contradicting the newer policy text (transfer policy). Also, while a proper
policy update is preferred in those situations, it is not necessary, since the
later policy text always wins over the old one, as the newer one represents
better the current community needs and wishes.<br>
<br>
Besides, change of purpose for usage is allowed in the current AFRINIC policy
text. There is not even an obsolete old policy text in AFRINIC’s CPM that
prevents LIR making their assignment for a different purpose, it only mentions
the sub-allocation, which is a totally different thing. So basically, change of
purpose for usage is always allowed in the AFRINIC region.<br>
<br>
In fact, the design of IP address policy did have the change of purpose in
mind, that is the very reason why we have two distinct definitions of "allocation" and
"assignment", LIR gets allocation, then makes assignment for each
specific user case, while the allocation is for general purpose, and you need
to make the assignment inside the allocation for each user case to the end
users. The Allocation stays with LIR, while the Assignment comes and goes as
the user case existed or not. If change of purpose is not allowed, then there
is absolutely no reason to distinguish them. AFRINIC should make assignment to
each LIR then evaluate every time the user case changes which is quite
impossible and impractical. As an example, if I made /23 for one web hosting
customer and then the customer leaves, I will need to go through an entire
application process again just because the same server goes to a VPN customer,
and this doesn’t happen anywhere in the world, and currently not with AFRINIC. <b>Allowing
LIR to freely manage its space usage within the allocation is the very core
design of IP address policy.</b><br>
<br>
Moreover, this is the exact reason why RSA is so badly written and shouldn't
contain any resource management clause. The lawyers do not understand the very
concept of Allocation and Assignment, let alone distinguishing between them.
Therefore, allowing lawyers texts to manage community resources is not only
illegitimate, but also lacks of needed technical understanding of addressing to
properly write it, that is why we now have an RSA which is full of invalid IP
management clauses and contradiction to the policy itself, which needs to be
fixed at some point of time. Not to mention that allowing lawyers to manage the
resources defies the very foundation of the bottom up process.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-HK"> </span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 11 févr. 2021 à 20:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="ES" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">Hi Widjane,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1"><li class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">Policies among the RIRs aren’t exactly the same. They tend to converge with the time, but not always are 100% the same.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and provided documents about what will be the usage and you change usage, you’re under lack of compliance. Note that we aren’t talking about business grow. For example, a very simple on, let’s suppose you got resources for an organization (assigned resources) and now you want to provide Internet services to others, that will be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another example, if you got resources in some RIRs you can’t use them to provide services outside of that region (at all, example AFRINIC, or depending on the % example LACNIC, it depends on the RIR).<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and policy should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing that freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in fact, happen because technical issues).<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted (ratified and even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR transfers. However, even in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are only for IPv4.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_6141679569131545229MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic way, but specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi" <<a href="mailto:wijdan.goubi@gmail.com" target="_blank">wijdan.goubi@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear community,<br><br>Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed by some) this doesn’t make any technical sense at all as there are consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows intra RIR transfers. <br><br>The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn’t sit well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow and expend its services. <br><br>This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as dynamic as the internet is!<br><br>The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the policy. <br>In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.<br><br>A post from years ago (<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html</a> ), from both ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern is to ensure accurate registration.<br><br>The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be found on the following link: <a href="https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5</a> <br><br>At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their reviews are called “ARC”, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on. Investigation, that is the part of the “fraud”.<br><br>Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of fraud.<br><br>Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.<br><br>There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently—as long as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR does not care about its current usage.<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <u></u><u></u></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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