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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Andrew,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>May be an English nit, but in Spanish when I say “involved” in this context, it means “those that participated in the illegal/against the CPM action”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The CPM and RSA allows the board for those “involved” to cancel the account. No need for waiting for any courts decision. I understand this is what has been done, I was just wondering if we were in case 1, 2, or 3. I think it will be good to know and this is not information that need to be hidden until the court decision, the community has the right to know that *<b>now</b>*, as it can help to clarify if we need better policies, or whatever, to avoid that in the future.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I understand that some resources may have been transferred without the knowledge of the legitimate holders. However, if you’re a holder and you didn’t realized that, it means that you’re not updating your records? It means that you’re not using those resources? Is not all that also against the CPM/RSA?</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 20/8/20 10:35, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>“All the involved resource-holders should lose their rights”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This assumes that the resource-holders who have legitimate rights to the IP space had any awareness of the transfers – which in this case is not reality – the transfers were illegitimate the IP space was stolen from the resource holders. So – what you are proposing is to penalize those who had resources stolen from them without their consent or knowledge.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I point out that it has already been public acknowledgement over the fact that there are criminal proceedings on going against a former member of staff who was allegedly involved in the theft of these resources – please – lets not fan the flames by making inflammatory suggestions that don’t take into account all of the facts as currently known.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:71.4pt'><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss@afrinic.net> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 20 August 2020 09:44<br><b>To:</b> community-discuss@afrinic.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:71.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:71.4pt'>I've some points here:<br><br>1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy? Or it happened before that policy existed?<br>2) Were those transfers inter-RIR?<br>3) In any case, were those transfers authorized by the staff (according to the CPM)?<br><br>If any of those questions indicate that the CPM has not been followed, all those resources should be claimed back and the involved resource-holders should lose their rights and the membership account closed, right?<br><br>Regards,<br>Jordi<br>@jordipalet<br><br><br><br>El 19/8/20 23:04, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>> escribió:<br><br>For those few of you who may not already be aware of this...<br><br><a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html</a><br><br>As many of you might imagine, I will have more to say about this in due<br>course.<br><br><br>Regards,<br>rfg<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Community-Discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br><br><br><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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