<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The best thing to do with the review policy is to abandon it. Unfortunately, despite sustained opposition and an inability to bring it to consensus, the authors persist.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 10, 2019, at 08:44 , Anthony Ubah <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" class="">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Dear Caleb
and </span>Arnaud<span lang="EN-US" class="">,</span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 107%; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" class="">I’m
confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving the problem
at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good policy. However, I
still struggle to decipher with the practicality of implementing the Internet
Number Resource review policy, and the consequences in the real world.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" class="">African is
a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems. Introducing such complex policies
will most likely not lead to an abuse of power, over-policing, and victimization.
Introducing a Gestapo style policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable
to the region’ as a whole.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" class="">I was at
the at just concluded meeting where this policy was re-represented, giving the
feedback from the community, I hoped to see a revised version but alas! it was
the same. </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 107%; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p style="line-height:150%" class=""><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="line-height:150%" class=""><font face="garamond, serif" class="">Best Regards,</font></span></b></p><p style="line-height:150%" class=""><font face="garamond, serif" class=""><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="line-height:150%" class="">ANTHONY </span></b></font></p><p style="line-height:150%" class=""><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-family:garamond,serif" class="">E-mail: </span><a href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:garamond,serif" class="">anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</a><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-family:garamond,serif" class="">.ng</span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br class="">
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class="">
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">
than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today's Topics:<br class="">
<br class="">
1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)<br class="">
2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
Message: 1<br class="">
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000<br class="">
From: Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,<br class="">
Issue 1<br class="">
Message-ID:<br class="">
<CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=<a href="mailto:CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
<br class="">
+1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regard<br class="">
<br class="">
--<br class="">
Arnaud<br class="">
<br class="">
Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
a ?crit :<br class="">
<br class="">
> Dear Ronald,<br class="">
><br class="">
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS<br class="">
> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of<br class="">
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and<br class="">
> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly<br class="">
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our<br class="">
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any<br class="">
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*<br class="">
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should<br class="">
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data<br class="">
> protection law.<br class="">
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017<br class="">
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective<br class="">
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act<br class="">
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection<br class="">
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).<br class="">
><br class="">
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more<br class="">
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a<br class="">
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court<br class="">
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m<br class="">
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number<br class="">
> Resources review policy<br class="">
> <<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a>> which was not<br class="">
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?<br class="">
> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a><br class="">
><br class="">
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for<br class="">
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Regards<br class="">
><br class="">
> Caleb Ogundele<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Today's Topics:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br class="">
>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)<br class="">
>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)<br class="">
>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)<br class="">
>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br class="">
>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br class="">
>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)<br class="">
>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)<br class="">
>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br class="">
>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br class="">
>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 1<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br class="">
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> >> news story.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,<br class="">
>> >> I only<br class="">
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >> rfg<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 2<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br class="">
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> following<br class="">
>> >>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,<br class="">
>> I only<br class="">
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>> Regards,<br class="">
>> >>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 3<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting<br class="">
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> <a href="http://mje@posix.co.za/????" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za????</a>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <<a href="tel:+27826010496" class="">tel:+27826010496</a>><br class="">
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins<br class="">
>><br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 4<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000<br class="">
>> From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br class="">
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -<br class="">
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or<br class="">
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value<br class="">
>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that<br class="">
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the<br class="">
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the<br class="">
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I<br class="">
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that<br class="">
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal<br class="">
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it<br class="">
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Andrew<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Get Outlook for iOS<<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br class="">
>> ________________________________<br class="">
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM<br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of<br class="">
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><mailto:<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Thanks.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> news story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> Tel:<br class="">
>> +27.826010496<<a href="tel:+27826010496" class="">tel:+27826010496</a>><br class="">
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 5<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I don't disagree with that either.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no<br class="">
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our<br class="">
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no<br class="">
>> one is doing mine for me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 6<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br class="">
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for<br class="">
>> the common good?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br class="">
>> time and intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 7<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> To: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the<br class="">
>> revelations<br class="">
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Omo<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> > space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> done.<br class="">
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> established,<br class="">
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br class="">
>> > their deeds.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br class="">
>> use,<br class="">
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br class="">
>> > common good?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> of<br class="">
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br class="">
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br class="">
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br class="">
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br class="">
>> > intellect.<br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> and<br class="">
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br class="">
>> then<br class="">
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br class="">
>> processes<br class="">
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> > only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing <a href="mailto:listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps" class="">listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps</a>://<br class="">
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> > Managing Director<br class="">
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> > Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 8<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br class="">
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Hi all,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mark,<br class="">
>> ...i agree !<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has<br class="">
>> > meant nothing.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service<br class="">
>> Agreement) could<br class="">
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy<br class="">
>> Proposal) [1] ?<br class="">
>> __<br class="">
>> [1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Shalom,<br class="">
>> --sb.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> and<br class="">
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br class="">
>> then<br class="">
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br class="">
>> processes<br class="">
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> > only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing <a href="mailto:listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps" class="">listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps</a>://<br class="">
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496><br class="">
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> Best Regards !<br class="">
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://survey.cmnog.cm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://survey.cmnog.cm</a>><br class="">
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br class="">
>> __<br class="">
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec<br class="">
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?<br class="">
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?<br class="">
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire<br class="">
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)<br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 9<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient<br class="">
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you<br class="">
>> benefited?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sent from my iPhone<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 10<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> >done.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br class="">
>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br class="">
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br class="">
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br class="">
>> that these matters are being looked into.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br class="">
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br class="">
>> three years ago.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br class="">
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br class="">
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br class="">
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br class="">
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br class="">
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br class="">
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br class="">
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br class="">
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br class="">
>> courageous reporting of <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br class="">
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br class="">
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br class="">
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br class="">
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br class="">
>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br class="">
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these<br class="">
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br class="">
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br class="">
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br class="">
>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br class="">
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br class="">
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br class="">
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br class="">
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br class="">
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br class="">
>> last be forthcoming?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> >accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br class="">
>> in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br class="">
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br class="">
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br class="">
>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br class="">
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be<br class="">
>> persuasively<br class="">
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br class="">
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br class="">
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br class="">
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br class="">
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br class="">
>> endemic<br class="">
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br class="">
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br class="">
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br class="">
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br class="">
>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br class="">
>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br class="">
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br class="">
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> >the manipulations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br class="">
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br class="">
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br class="">
>> AFRINIC,<br class="">
>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br class="">
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br class="">
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br class="">
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br class="">
>> staff even noticed any of this?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br class="">
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br class="">
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br class="">
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br class="">
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br class="">
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br class="">
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br class="">
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br class="">
>> >time and intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br class="">
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br class="">
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br class="">
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br class="">
>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br class="">
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br class="">
>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br class="">
>> colossal<br class="">
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br class="">
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br class="">
>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br class="">
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br class="">
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br class="">
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br class="">
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br class="">
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br class="">
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br class="">
>> placed<br class="">
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br class="">
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br class="">
>> responsibility.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br class="">
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br class="">
>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br class="">
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br class="">
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br class="">
>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br class="">
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br class="">
>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br class="">
>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br class="">
>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br class="">
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br class="">
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
>> reasonable<br class="">
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br class="">
>> Exactly<br class="">
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br class="">
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br class="">
>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br class="">
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br class="">
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br class="">
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br class="">
>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br class="">
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> the rejection of such requests.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br class="">
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br class="">
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br class="">
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br class="">
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br class="">
>> insultingly<br class="">
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br class="">
>> arranged<br class="">
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br class="">
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br class="">
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br class="">
>> allocations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br class="">
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br class="">
>> non-legacy<br class="">
>> <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br class="">
>> These<br class="">
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br class="">
>> U.S. dollars.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br class="">
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br class="">
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br class="">
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br class="">
>> AFRINIC.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br class="">
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br class="">
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br class="">
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br class="">
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br class="">
>> on these IPv4 assignments.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br class="">
>> clarification<br class="">
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br class="">
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br class="">
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br class="">
>> noted.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 11<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I know what sparked this story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.<br class="">
>> Please proceed.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 12<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100<br class="">
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Hi Sunday, all,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me<br class="">
>> tell why.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first<br class="">
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,<br class="">
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to<br class="">
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his<br class="">
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I<br class="">
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid<br class="">
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could<br class="">
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br class="">
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing<br class="">
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take<br class="">
>> advantage of that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well<br class="">
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,<br class="">
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of<br class="">
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As<br class="">
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I<br class="">
>> still resist to believe it.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position<br class="">
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br class="">
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br class="">
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to<br class="">
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and<br class="">
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is<br class="">
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something<br class="">
>> similar.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If<br class="">
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br class="">
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement an all this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.<br class="">
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees<br class="">
>> on that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no<br class="">
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br class="">
>> thankful for that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Jordi<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> @jordipalet<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.<br class="">
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,<br class="">
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br class="">
>> their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,<br class="">
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br class="">
>> common good?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of<br class="">
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br class="">
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br class="">
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br class="">
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br class="">
>> intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Thanks.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> news story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing<br class="">
>> list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> **********************************************<br class="">
>> IPv4 is over<br class="">
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
>> The IPv6 Company<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br class="">
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br class="">
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br class="">
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br class="">
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br class="">
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br class="">
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br class="">
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br class="">
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br class="">
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>> communication and delete it.<br class="">
>><br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 13<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br class="">
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as<br class="">
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we<br class="">
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.<br class="">
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:ceo@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">ceo@afrinic.net</a>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not<br class="">
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions<br class="">
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard<br class="">
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,<br class="">
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not<br class="">
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently<br class="">
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the<br class="">
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br class="">
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one<br class="">
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately<br class="">
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,<br class="">
>> because you rightly built on their work!<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Great job you are doing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have a great day.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> >> done.<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br class="">
>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br class="">
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br class="">
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague<br class="">
>> assurances<br class="">
>> > that these matters are being looked into.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br class="">
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br class="">
>> > three years ago.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br class="">
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br class="">
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br class="">
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br class="">
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br class="">
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br class="">
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br class="">
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br class="">
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br class="">
>> > courageous reporting of <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br class="">
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br class="">
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br class="">
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br class="">
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br class="">
>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br class="">
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these<br class="">
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br class="">
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br class="">
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br class="">
>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br class="">
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br class="">
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br class="">
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br class="">
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br class="">
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at<br class="">
>> long<br class="">
>> > last be forthcoming?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> >> accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br class="">
>> > in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br class="">
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br class="">
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and<br class="">
>> intentions<br class="">
>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence<br class="">
>> already<br class="">
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be<br class="">
>> persuasively<br class="">
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in<br class="">
>> fact<br class="">
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br class="">
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br class="">
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br class="">
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br class="">
>> endemic<br class="">
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do<br class="">
>> you<br class="">
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br class="">
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br class="">
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed<br class="">
>> by<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever<br class="">
>> they<br class="">
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br class="">
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br class="">
>> discover<br class="">
>> >> the manipulations.<br class="">
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br class="">
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br class="">
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br class="">
>> AFRINIC,<br class="">
>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br class="">
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br class="">
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br class="">
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br class="">
>> > staff even noticed any of this?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br class="">
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br class="">
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br class="">
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br class="">
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br class="">
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br class="">
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br class="">
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br class="">
>> our<br class="">
>> >> time and intellect.<br class="">
>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br class="">
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I<br class="">
>> have<br class="">
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br class="">
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br class="">
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br class="">
>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br class="">
>> colossal<br class="">
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br class="">
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br class="">
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br class="">
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br class="">
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br class="">
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br class="">
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br class="">
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br class="">
>> placed<br class="">
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to<br class="">
>> all.<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br class="">
>> responsibility.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br class="">
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br class="">
>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br class="">
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the<br class="">
>> carpet<br class="">
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"<br class="">
>> in<br class="">
>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to<br class="">
>> some<br class="">
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br class="">
>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br class="">
>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br class="">
>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br class="">
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br class="">
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
>> reasonable<br class="">
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br class="">
>> Exactly<br class="">
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br class="">
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists<br class="">
>> upon<br class="">
>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such<br class="">
>> unredacted<br class="">
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were<br class="">
>> rejected<br class="">
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved<br class="">
>> policy<br class="">
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate<br class="">
>> explanation for<br class="">
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br class="">
>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be<br class="">
>> completed<br class="">
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> > the rejection of such requests.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br class="">
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br class="">
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br class="">
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br class="">
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br class="">
>> insultingly<br class="">
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br class="">
>> arranged<br class="">
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be<br class="">
>> associated<br class="">
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br class="">
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br class="">
>> > allocations.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">168.80.0.0/15</a><br class="">
>> block,<br class="">
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br class="">
>> non-legacy<br class="">
>> > <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br class="">
>> These<br class="">
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six<br class="">
>> million<br class="">
>> > U.S. dollars.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br class="">
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as<br class="">
>> MEMBER-ONLY,<br class="">
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br class="">
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br class="">
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it<br class="">
>> does<br class="">
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br class="">
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br class="">
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be<br class="">
>> due<br class="">
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br class="">
>> clarification<br class="">
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br class="">
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br class="">
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the<br class="">
>> organizations<br class="">
>> > noted.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 14<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br class="">
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br class="">
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br class="">
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br class="">
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br class="">
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br class="">
>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br class="">
>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br class="">
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br class="">
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br class="">
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br class="">
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br class="">
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br class="">
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br class="">
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br class="">
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br class="">
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br class="">
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br class="">
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br class="">
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br class="">
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 15<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>, General<br class="">
>> Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing<br class="">
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not<br class="">
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the<br class="">
>> ongoing investigations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,<br class="">
>> when the investigations are completed.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Hi Sunday, all,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let<br class="">
>> > me tell why.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My<br class="">
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly<br class="">
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could<br class="">
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and<br class="">
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training<br class="">
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,<br class="">
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the<br class="">
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from<br class="">
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do<br class="">
>> > the training.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br class="">
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been<br class="">
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been<br class="">
>> > able to take advantage of that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as<br class="">
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much<br class="">
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost<br class="">
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a<br class="">
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But<br class="">
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the<br class="">
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think<br class="">
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you<br class="">
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your<br class="">
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly<br class="">
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean<br class="">
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or<br class="">
>> > something similar.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.<br class="">
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br class="">
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> > involvement an all this.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal<br class="">
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure<br class="">
>> > everybody agrees on that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so<br class="">
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br class="">
>> > thankful for that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Jordi<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > @jordipalet<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>> escribi?:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway<br class="">
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only<br class="">
>> > on legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> > accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of<br class="">
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br class="">
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or<br class="">
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the<br class="">
>> > Registry for the common good?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their<br class="">
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with<br class="">
>> > gusto by now.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br class="">
>> > our time and intellect.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there<br class="">
>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy<br class="">
>> > space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the<br class="">
>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then<br class="">
>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired<br class="">
>> > outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically<br class="">
>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet<br class="">
>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces<br class="">
>> > under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let<br class="">
>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful<br class="">
>> > work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think<br class="">
>> > about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?<br class="">
>> > For the moment, I only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by<br class="">
>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> > Managing Director<br class="">
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Email%3Asfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">Email:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>>,<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss<br class="">
>> > mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > **********************************************<br class="">
>> > IPv4 is over<br class="">
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
>> > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
>> > The IPv6 Company<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br class="">
>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive<br class="">
>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty<br class="">
>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of<br class="">
>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is<br class="">
>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you<br class="">
>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br class="">
>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if<br class="">
>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br class="">
>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br class="">
>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 16<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br class="">
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement an all this.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of<br class="">
>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to<br class="">
>> hear from the CEO<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Omo<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 17<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br class="">
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful<br class="">
>> response.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br class="">
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking<br class="">
>> stakeholder.<br class="">
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br class="">
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br class="">
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br class="">
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br class="">
>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br class="">
>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br class="">
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br class="">
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br class="">
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br class="">
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br class="">
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br class="">
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br class="">
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br class="">
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br class="">
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br class="">
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br class="">
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br class="">
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br class="">
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank<br class="">
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.<br class="">
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this<br class="">
>> point in time.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not<br class="">
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.<br class="">
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more<br class="">
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.<br class="">
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they<br class="">
>> will come.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> With kind Regards ...<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 18<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>>,<br class="">
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So, put yourself in the position of<br class="">
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br class="">
>> your o<br class="">
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br class="">
>> someone,=C2=A0<br class="">
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in<br class="">
>> an<br class="">
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much<br class="">
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked<br class="">
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in<br class="">
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to<br class="">
>> these ones:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD</a><br class="">
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB</a><br class="">
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP</a><br class="">
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW</a><br class="">
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years<br class="">
>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them<br class="">
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It<br class="">
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the<br class="">
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some<br class="">
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are<br class="">
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide<br class="">
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief<br class="">
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of<br class="">
>> everyone...<br class="">
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say<br class="">
>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So maybe<br class="">
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty<br class="">
>> =E2=80=9Cin<br class="">
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this<br class="">
>> possibility<br class="">
>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,<br class="">
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an<br class="">
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,<br class="">
>> despite<br class="">
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents<br class="">
>> may<br class="">
>> >not be enough.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I agree.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time<br class="">
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records<br class="">
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two<br class="">
>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as<br class="">
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in<br class="">
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance<br class="">
>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question<br class="">
>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various<br class="">
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become<br class="">
>> very relevant.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br class="">
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement<br class="">
>> >an all this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant<br class="">
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone<br class="">
>> numbers<br class="">
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,<br class="">
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable<br class="">
>> to<br class="">
>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting<br class="">
>> his<br class="">
>> side of the story, if he has one.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain<br class="">
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than<br class="">
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts<br class="">
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC<br class="">
>> after 15 years on the job.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our<br class="">
>> inquiries.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 19<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>>,<br class="">
>> Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's<br class="">
>> >wait to hear from the CEO<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Subject: Digest Footer<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1<br class="">
>> *************************************************<br class="">
>><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> --<br class="">
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*<br class="">
> *<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>*<br class="">
> *234 - 8077377378*<br class="">
> *234 - 07030777969*<br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
><br class="">
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<br class="">
------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
Message: 2<br class="">
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000<br class="">
From: Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>><br class="">
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>>,<br class="">
Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,<br class="">
Issue 1<br class="">
Message-ID:<br class="">
<CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=<a href="mailto:DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Community,<br class="">
<br class="">
Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC from reviewing resources if<br class="">
complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints<br class="">
in press which trigger reviews.<br class="">
The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways<br class="">
of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review<br class="">
policy may have led to media complaint induced review.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards<br class="">
<br class="">
--<br class="">
Arnaud<br class="">
<br class="">
Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> a ?crit :<br class="">
<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> policy or not will not prevent afrinic from reviewing resources if<br class="">
> complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints<br class="">
> in press which trigger reviews.<br class="">
><br class="">
> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways<br class="">
> of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review<br class="">
> policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at<br class="">
> 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> Dear Ronald,<br class="">
><br class="">
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS<br class="">
> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of<br class="">
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and<br class="">
> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly<br class="">
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our<br class="">
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any<br class="">
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*<br class="">
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should<br class="">
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data<br class="">
> protection law.<br class="">
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017<br class="">
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective<br class="">
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act<br class="">
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection<br class="">
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).<br class="">
><br class="">
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more<br class="">
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a<br class="">
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court<br class="">
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m<br class="">
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about DPR<br class="">
> don?t really apply.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR<br class="">
> issue at all.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number<br class="">
> Resources review policy<br class="">
> <<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a>> which was not<br class="">
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?<br class="">
> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.<br class="">
><br class="">
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for<br class="">
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently<br class="">
> do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of Service<br class="">
> attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced<br class="">
> resource review.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely<br class="">
> unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset of<br class="">
> the membership to attack another.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Owen<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> Regards<br class="">
><br class="">
> Caleb Ogundele<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Today's Topics:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br class="">
>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)<br class="">
>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)<br class="">
>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)<br class="">
>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br class="">
>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br class="">
>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)<br class="">
>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)<br class="">
>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br class="">
>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br class="">
>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br class="">
>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 1<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br class="">
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> >> news story.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,<br class="">
>> >> I only<br class="">
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >> rfg<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>><br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 2<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br class="">
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> following<br class="">
>> >>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,<br class="">
>> I only<br class="">
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>> Regards,<br class="">
>> >>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 3<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting<br class="">
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> <a href="http://mje@posix.co.za/??" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za??</a>?? <<a href="http://mje@posix.co.za/???" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mje@posix.co.za/???</a>?>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <<br class="">
>> <a href="tel:+27826010496" class="">tel:+27826010496</a> <+27826010496>><br class="">
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg</a><br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 4<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000<br class="">
>> From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br class="">
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -<br class="">
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or<br class="">
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value<br class="">
>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that<br class="">
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the<br class="">
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the<br class="">
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I<br class="">
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that<br class="">
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal<br class="">
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it<br class="">
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Andrew<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Get Outlook for iOS<<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br class="">
>> ________________________________<br class="">
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM<br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of<br class="">
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><mailto:<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Thanks.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> news story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> Tel: +27.826010496<<br class="">
>> <a href="tel:+27826010496" class="">tel:+27826010496</a> <+27826010496>><br class="">
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><<br class="">
>> <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br class="">
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>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 5<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I don't disagree with that either.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no<br class="">
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our<br class="">
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no<br class="">
>> one is doing mine for me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 6<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br class="">
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for<br class="">
>> the common good?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br class="">
>> time and intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br class="">
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br class="">
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> Mark.<br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br class="">
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Thanks.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> Sunday.<br class="">
>> >>><br class="">
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br class="">
>> >>>> following<br class="">
>> >>>> news story.<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br class="">
>> >>>> moment, I only<br class="">
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> >>>> rfg<br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> >>>><br class="">
>> >><br class="">
>> >> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 7<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> To: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the<br class="">
>> revelations<br class="">
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Omo<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> > space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> done.<br class="">
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> established,<br class="">
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br class="">
>> > their deeds.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br class="">
>> use,<br class="">
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br class="">
>> > common good?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> of<br class="">
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br class="">
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br class="">
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br class="">
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br class="">
>> > intellect.<br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> and<br class="">
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br class="">
>> then<br class="">
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br class="">
>> processes<br class="">
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> > only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing <a href="mailto:listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps" class="">listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps</a>://<br class="">
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> > Managing Director<br class="">
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> > Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 8<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br class="">
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID:<br class="">
>> <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Hi all,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br class="">
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mark,<br class="">
>> ...i agree !<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has<br class="">
>> > meant nothing.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service<br class="">
>> Agreement) could<br class="">
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy<br class="">
>> Proposal) [1] ?<br class="">
>> __<br class="">
>> [1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp</a>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Shalom,<br class="">
>> --sb.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br class="">
>> and<br class="">
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br class="">
>> then<br class="">
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br class="">
>> processes<br class="">
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> > only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing <a href="mailto:listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps" class="">listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps</a>://<br class="">
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496><br class="">
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> Best Regards !<br class="">
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://survey.cmnog.cm/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://survey.cmnog.cm</a>><br class="">
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br class="">
>> __<br class="">
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec<br class="">
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?<br class="">
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?<br class="">
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire<br class="">
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)<br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 9<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient<br class="">
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you<br class="">
>> benefited?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sent from my iPhone<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br class="">
>> Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 10<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> >done.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br class="">
>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br class="">
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br class="">
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br class="">
>> that these matters are being looked into.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br class="">
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br class="">
>> three years ago.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br class="">
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br class="">
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br class="">
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br class="">
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br class="">
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br class="">
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br class="">
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br class="">
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br class="">
>> courageous reporting of <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>>.<br class="">
>> Neither the board nor<br class="">
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br class="">
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br class="">
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br class="">
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br class="">
>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br class="">
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these<br class="">
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br class="">
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br class="">
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br class="">
>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br class="">
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br class="">
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br class="">
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br class="">
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br class="">
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br class="">
>> last be forthcoming?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> >accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br class="">
>> in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, the<br class="">
>> majority of which were drawn from<br class="">
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br class="">
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br class="">
>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br class="">
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>><br class="">
>> article, it can be persuasively<br class="">
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br class="">
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br class="">
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br class="">
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br class="">
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br class="">
>> endemic<br class="">
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br class="">
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br class="">
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br class="">
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br class="">
>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br class="">
>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br class="">
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br class="">
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> >the manipulations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br class="">
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br class="">
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br class="">
>> AFRINIC,<br class="">
>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br class="">
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br class="">
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br class="">
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br class="">
>> staff even noticed any of this?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br class="">
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br class="">
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br class="">
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br class="">
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br class="">
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br class="">
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br class="">
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br class="">
>> >time and intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br class="">
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br class="">
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br class="">
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br class="">
>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br class="">
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br class="">
>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br class="">
>> colossal<br class="">
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br class="">
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br class="">
>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br class="">
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br class="">
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br class="">
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br class="">
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br class="">
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br class="">
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br class="">
>> placed<br class="">
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br class="">
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br class="">
>> responsibility.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br class="">
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br class="">
>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br class="">
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br class="">
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br class="">
>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br class="">
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br class="">
>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br class="">
>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br class="">
>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br class="">
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br class="">
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
>> reasonable<br class="">
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br class="">
>> Exactly<br class="">
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br class="">
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br class="">
>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br class="">
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br class="">
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br class="">
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br class="">
>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br class="">
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> the rejection of such requests.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br class="">
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br class="">
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br class="">
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br class="">
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br class="">
>> insultingly<br class="">
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br class="">
>> arranged<br class="">
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br class="">
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br class="">
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br class="">
>> allocations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br class="">
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br class="">
>> non-legacy<br class="">
>> <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br class="">
>> These<br class="">
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br class="">
>> U.S. dollars.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br class="">
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br class="">
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br class="">
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br class="">
>> AFRINIC.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br class="">
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br class="">
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br class="">
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br class="">
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br class="">
>> on these IPv4 assignments.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br class="">
>> clarification<br class="">
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br class="">
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br class="">
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br class="">
>> noted.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 11<br class="">
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I know what sparked this story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.<br class="">
>> Please proceed.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 12<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100<br class="">
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Hi Sunday, all,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me<br class="">
>> tell why.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first<br class="">
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,<br class="">
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to<br class="">
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his<br class="">
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I<br class="">
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid<br class="">
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could<br class="">
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br class="">
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing<br class="">
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take<br class="">
>> advantage of that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well<br class="">
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,<br class="">
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of<br class="">
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As<br class="">
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I<br class="">
>> still resist to believe it.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position<br class="">
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br class="">
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br class="">
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to<br class="">
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and<br class="">
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is<br class="">
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something<br class="">
>> similar.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If<br class="">
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br class="">
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement an all this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.<br class="">
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees<br class="">
>> on that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no<br class="">
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br class="">
>> thankful for that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Jordi<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> @jordipalet<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br class="">
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br class="">
>> space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.<br class="">
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,<br class="">
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br class="">
>> their deeds.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br class="">
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,<br class="">
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br class="">
>> common good?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of<br class="">
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br class="">
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br class="">
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br class="">
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br class="">
>> intellect.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br class="">
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br class="">
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br class="">
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br class="">
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br class="">
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br class="">
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mike<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mark.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br class="">
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br class="">
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br class="">
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Thanks.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br class="">
>> news story.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br class="">
>> only<br class="">
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing<br class="">
>> list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> **********************************************<br class="">
>> IPv4 is over<br class="">
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
>> The IPv6 Company<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br class="">
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br class="">
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br class="">
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br class="">
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br class="">
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br class="">
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br class="">
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br class="">
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br class="">
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this<br class="">
>> communication and delete it.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 13<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br class="">
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as<br class="">
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we<br class="">
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.<br class="">
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:ceo@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">ceo@afrinic.net</a>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not<br class="">
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions<br class="">
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard<br class="">
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,<br class="">
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not<br class="">
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently<br class="">
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the<br class="">
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br class="">
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one<br class="">
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately<br class="">
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,<br class="">
>> because you rightly built on their work!<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Great job you are doing.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have a great day.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> >> done.<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br class="">
>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br class="">
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br class="">
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague<br class="">
>> assurances<br class="">
>> > that these matters are being looked into.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br class="">
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br class="">
>> > three years ago.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br class="">
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br class="">
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br class="">
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br class="">
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br class="">
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br class="">
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br class="">
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br class="">
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br class="">
>> > courageous reporting of <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>>.<br class="">
>> Neither the board nor<br class="">
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br class="">
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br class="">
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br class="">
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br class="">
>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br class="">
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these<br class="">
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br class="">
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br class="">
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br class="">
>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br class="">
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br class="">
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br class="">
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br class="">
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br class="">
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at<br class="">
>> long<br class="">
>> > last be forthcoming?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> >> accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br class="">
>> > in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, the<br class="">
>> majority of which were drawn from<br class="">
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br class="">
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and<br class="">
>> intentions<br class="">
>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence<br class="">
>> already<br class="">
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">MyBroadband.co.za</a><br class="">
>> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, it can be persuasively<br class="">
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in<br class="">
>> fact<br class="">
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br class="">
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br class="">
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br class="">
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br class="">
>> endemic<br class="">
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do<br class="">
>> you<br class="">
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br class="">
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br class="">
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed<br class="">
>> by<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever<br class="">
>> they<br class="">
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br class="">
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br class="">
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br class="">
>> discover<br class="">
>> >> the manipulations.<br class="">
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br class="">
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br class="">
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br class="">
>> AFRINIC,<br class="">
>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br class="">
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br class="">
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br class="">
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br class="">
>> > staff even noticed any of this?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br class="">
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br class="">
>> now.<br class="">
>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br class="">
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br class="">
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br class="">
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br class="">
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br class="">
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br class="">
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br class="">
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br class="">
>> our<br class="">
>> >> time and intellect.<br class="">
>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br class="">
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I<br class="">
>> have<br class="">
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br class="">
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br class="">
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br class="">
>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br class="">
>> colossal<br class="">
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br class="">
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br class="">
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br class="">
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br class="">
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br class="">
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br class="">
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br class="">
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br class="">
>> placed<br class="">
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to<br class="">
>> all.<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br class="">
>> responsibility.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br class="">
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br class="">
>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br class="">
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the<br class="">
>> carpet<br class="">
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"<br class="">
>> in<br class="">
>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to<br class="">
>> some<br class="">
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br class="">
>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br class="">
>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br class="">
>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br class="">
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br class="">
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br class="">
>> reasonable<br class="">
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br class="">
>> Exactly<br class="">
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br class="">
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists<br class="">
>> upon<br class="">
>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such<br class="">
>> unredacted<br class="">
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were<br class="">
>> rejected<br class="">
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved<br class="">
>> policy<br class="">
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate<br class="">
>> explanation for<br class="">
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br class="">
>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be<br class="">
>> completed<br class="">
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br class="">
>> for<br class="">
>> > the rejection of such requests.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br class="">
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br class="">
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br class="">
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br class="">
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br class="">
>> insultingly<br class="">
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br class="">
>> arranged<br class="">
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be<br class="">
>> associated<br class="">
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br class="">
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br class="">
>> > allocations.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">168.80.0.0/15</a><br class="">
>> block,<br class="">
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br class="">
>> non-legacy<br class="">
>> > <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br class="">
>> These<br class="">
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six<br class="">
>> million<br class="">
>> > U.S. dollars.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br class="">
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as<br class="">
>> MEMBER-ONLY,<br class="">
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br class="">
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br class="">
>> > AFRINIC.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br class="">
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it<br class="">
>> does<br class="">
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br class="">
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br class="">
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be<br class="">
>> due<br class="">
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br class="">
>> clarification<br class="">
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br class="">
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br class="">
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the<br class="">
>> organizations<br class="">
>> > noted.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 14<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br class="">
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br class="">
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br class="">
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br class="">
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br class="">
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br class="">
>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br class="">
>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br class="">
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br class="">
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br class="">
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br class="">
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br class="">
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br class="">
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br class="">
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br class="">
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br class="">
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br class="">
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br class="">
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br class="">
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br class="">
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 15<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>, General<br class="">
>> Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing<br class="">
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not<br class="">
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the<br class="">
>> ongoing investigations.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,<br class="">
>> when the investigations are completed.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Hi Sunday, all,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let<br class="">
>> > me tell why.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My<br class="">
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly<br class="">
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could<br class="">
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and<br class="">
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training<br class="">
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,<br class="">
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the<br class="">
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from<br class="">
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do<br class="">
>> > the training.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br class="">
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been<br class="">
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been<br class="">
>> > able to take advantage of that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as<br class="">
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much<br class="">
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost<br class="">
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a<br class="">
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But<br class="">
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the<br class="">
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think<br class="">
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you<br class="">
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your<br class="">
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly<br class="">
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean<br class="">
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or<br class="">
>> > something similar.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.<br class="">
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br class="">
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> > involvement an all this.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal<br class="">
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure<br class="">
>> > everybody agrees on that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so<br class="">
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br class="">
>> > thankful for that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Regards,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Jordi<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > @jordipalet<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>> escribi?:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway<br class="">
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only<br class="">
>> > on legacy space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br class="">
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br class="">
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br class="">
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br class="">
>> > accountable for their deeds.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br class="">
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of<br class="">
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br class="">
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or<br class="">
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the<br class="">
>> > Registry for the common good?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their<br class="">
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with<br class="">
>> > gusto by now.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br class="">
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br class="">
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br class="">
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br class="">
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br class="">
>> > our time and intellect.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there<br class="">
>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy<br class="">
>> > space.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the<br class="">
>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br class="">
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br class="">
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br class="">
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then<br class="">
>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired<br class="">
>> > outcome.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mike<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank" class="">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Mark.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically<br class="">
>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet<br class="">
>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces<br class="">
>> > under some form of RSA?<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let<br class="">
>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful<br class="">
>> > work for Africa.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Thanks.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Sunday.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think<br class="">
>> > about the following<br class="">
>> > news story.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?<br class="">
>> > For the moment, I only<br class="">
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by<br class="">
>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen<br class="">
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br class="">
>> > ? ? Regards,<br class="">
>> > rfg<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > --<br class="">
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> > Managing Director<br class="">
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Email%3Asfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">Email:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>>,<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss<br class="">
>> > mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > **********************************************<br class="">
>> > IPv4 is over<br class="">
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
>> > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
>> > The IPv6 Company<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br class="">
>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive<br class="">
>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty<br class="">
>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of<br class="">
>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is<br class="">
>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you<br class="">
>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br class="">
>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if<br class="">
>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br class="">
>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br class="">
>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> --<br class="">
>> --------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br class="">
>> Managing Director<br class="">
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br class="">
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br class="">
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br class="">
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
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>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 16<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200<br class="">
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br class="">
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement an all this.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of<br class="">
>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to<br class="">
>> hear from the CEO<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Omo<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
>> URL: <<br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html</a><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 17<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100<br class="">
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br class="">
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br class="">
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful<br class="">
>> response.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br class="">
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br class="">
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br class="">
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br class="">
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking<br class="">
>> stakeholder.<br class="">
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br class="">
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br class="">
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br class="">
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br class="">
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br class="">
>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br class="">
>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br class="">
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br class="">
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br class="">
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br class="">
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br class="">
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br class="">
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br class="">
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br class="">
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br class="">
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br class="">
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br class="">
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.<br class="">
>> ><br class="">
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br class="">
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br class="">
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank<br class="">
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.<br class="">
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this<br class="">
>> point in time.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not<br class="">
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.<br class="">
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more<br class="">
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.<br class="">
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they<br class="">
>> will come.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> With kind Regards ...<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Sunday.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 18<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>>,<br class="">
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class="">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So, put yourself in the position of<br class="">
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br class="">
>> your o<br class="">
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br class="">
>> someone,=C2=A0<br class="">
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in<br class="">
>> an<br class="">
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much<br class="">
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked<br class="">
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in<br class="">
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to<br class="">
>> these ones:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD</a><br class="">
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB</a><br class="">
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP</a><br class="">
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW</a><br class="">
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years<br class="">
>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them<br class="">
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It<br class="">
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the<br class="">
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some<br class="">
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are<br class="">
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide<br class="">
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief<br class="">
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of<br class="">
>> everyone...<br class="">
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say<br class="">
>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So maybe<br class="">
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty<br class="">
>> =E2=80=9Cin<br class="">
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this<br class="">
>> possibility<br class="">
>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,<br class="">
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an<br class="">
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,<br class="">
>> despite<br class="">
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents<br class="">
>> may<br class="">
>> >not be enough.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I agree.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time<br class="">
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records<br class="">
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two<br class="">
>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as<br class="">
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in<br class="">
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance<br class="">
>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question<br class="">
>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various<br class="">
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become<br class="">
>> very relevant.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br class="">
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br class="">
>> involvement<br class="">
>> >an all this.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant<br class="">
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone<br class="">
>> numbers<br class="">
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,<br class="">
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable<br class="">
>> to<br class="">
>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting<br class="">
>> his<br class="">
>> side of the story, if he has one.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain<br class="">
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than<br class="">
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts<br class="">
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC<br class="">
>> after 15 years on the job.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our<br class="">
>> inquiries.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Message: 19<br class="">
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800<br class="">
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br class="">
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank" class="">21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br class="">
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> In message <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>>,<br class="">
>> Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank" class="">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's<br class="">
>> >wait to hear from the CEO<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Regards,<br class="">
>> rfg<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Subject: Digest Footer<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="">
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> ------------------------------<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1<br class="">
>> *************************************************<br class="">
>><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> --<br class="">
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*<br class="">
> *<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>*<br class="">
> *234 - 8077377378*<br class="">
> *234 - 07030777969*<br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
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<br class="">
Subject: Digest Footer<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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*************************************************<br class="">
</blockquote></div>
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