<div dir="ltr">Dear Ronald,<br><br>So I read where this comment below was attributed to you. <br><br><br><b>>“Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable<br>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS database. Exactly<br>> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br>> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br>> was cited as the basis for the denial.”<br></b><br>While
not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
know that AFRINIC’s operation is also being governed by Mauritius
data protection law.<br><div>Mauritius regulates data protection under the
Data Protection Act 2017 (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through
Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective January 15, 2018. The Act repeals
and replaces the Data Protection Act 2004, so as to align with the
European Union General Data Protection Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR). <br></div><div><br></div>Even
if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to
a non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I’m
wrong in my legal analysis of your request.<br><br>Perhaps, isn’t it
time for the community to revisit <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal">the Internet Number Resources review policy</a> which was not on the docket for policy at this just-concluded
meeting?<br><a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a><br><br>We
might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for a
diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.<br><br>Regards<br><br><div>Caleb Ogundele</div><br><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)<br>
3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)<br>
4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)<br>
5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)<br>
9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)<br>
10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200<br>
From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu" target="_blank">9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
<br>
Mark.<br>
<br>
On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
><br>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br>
> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> news story.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,<br>
>> I only<br>
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200<br>
From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com" target="_blank">2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
<br>
I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
<br>
It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. <br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
> <br>
> Mark.<br>
> <br>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? <br>
>> <br>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. <br>
>> <br>
>> Thanks. <br>
>> <br>
>> Sunday. <br>
>> <br>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: <br>
>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following <br>
>>> news story. <br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a> <<a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>> <br>
>>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I only <br>
>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen <br>
>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. <br>
>>> Regards, <br>
>>> rfg <br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> _______________________________________________ <br>
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list <br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200<br>
From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za" target="_blank">007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to <br>
manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting <br>
of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
<br>
On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears <br>
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem <br>
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how <br>
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been <br>
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of <br>
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving <br>
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a> <br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient <br>
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC <br>
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see <br>
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sunday.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the <br>
>>>> following<br>
>>>> news story.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a> <br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the <br>
>>>> moment, I only<br>
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan <br>
>>>> Vermeulen<br>
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>>>> rfg<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
-- <br>
<br>
Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a href="http://mje@posix.co.za????" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za????</a>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496><br>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
<br>
Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins<br>
<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000<br>
From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any - legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.<br>
<br>
The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.<br>
<br>
I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it did not adequately protect against the actions taken.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Get Outlook for iOS<<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
________________________________<br>
From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
<br>
<br>
Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
<br>
On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
<br>
I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
<br>
It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
<br>
Mark.<br>
<br>
On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
<br>
I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Sunday.<br>
<br>
On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
news story.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><<a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>><br>
I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I only<br>
wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
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Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
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Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
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--<br>
<br>
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> Tel: +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496><br>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><<a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>><br>
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[Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
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<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200<br>
From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu" target="_blank">7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I don't disagree with that either.<br>
<br>
I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no<br>
shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our<br>
already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no<br>
one is doing mine for me.<br>
<br>
My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.<br>
<br>
Mark.<br>
<br>
On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sunday.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>>>> following<br>
>>>> news story.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>>>> moment, I only<br>
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>>>> Vermeulen<br>
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>>>> rfg<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100<br>
From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest <br>
that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy <br>
space.<br>
<br>
The community has been informed that there is already some internal <br>
investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things <br>
done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are <br>
established, the law should take its course and people should stand <br>
accountable for their deeds.<br>
<br>
I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund <br>
organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 <br>
years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover <br>
the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active <br>
use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for <br>
the common good?<br>
<br>
For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal <br>
department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
<br>
While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf <br>
of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, <br>
with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should <br>
rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are <br>
available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our <br>
time and intellect.<br>
<br>
Sunday.<br>
<br>
On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears <br>
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem <br>
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how <br>
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been <br>
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of <br>
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving <br>
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a> <br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient <br>
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC <br>
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see <br>
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sunday.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the <br>
>>>> following<br>
>>>> news story.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a> <br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the <br>
>>>> moment, I only<br>
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan <br>
>>>> Vermeulen<br>
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>>>> rfg<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
<br>
-- <br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
Managing Director<br>
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
---------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200<br>
From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
To: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=<a href="mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the revelations<br>
might be, this makes the most sense to me.<br>
<br>
Omo<br>
<br>
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
> space.<br>
><br>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.<br>
> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,<br>
> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br>
> their deeds.<br>
><br>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,<br>
> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br>
> common good?<br>
><br>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
><br>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of<br>
> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br>
> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br>
> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br>
> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br>
> intellect.<br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
><br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
><br>
> Mark.<br>
><br>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
><br>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
><br>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
><br>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
> news story.<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
> only<br>
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
> Regards,<br>
> rfg<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> --------------------------------------------------<br>
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
> Managing Director<br>
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100<br>
From: Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br>
<br>
> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
> manipulate the non-legacy space -<br>
><br>
<br>
Dear Mark,<br>
...i agree !<br>
<br>
yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has<br>
> meant nothing.<br>
><br>
<br>
As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service<br>
Agreement) could<br>
easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?<br>
<br>
...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy<br>
Proposal) [1] ?<br>
__<br>
[1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp</a>><br>
<br>
Shalom,<br>
--sb.<br>
<br>
On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
><br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
><br>
> Mark.<br>
><br>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
><br>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
><br>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
><br>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
> news story.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-</a><br>
> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<br>
> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
> only<br>
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
> Regards,<br>
> rfg<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496><br>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
><br>
> [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
--<br>
Best Regards !<br>
baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<br>
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#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec<br>
vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?<br>
?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?<br>
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<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100<br>
From: Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you benefited?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
> On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
> news story.<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
> <br>
> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I only<br>
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> rfg<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 10<br>
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>, <br>
Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>The community has been informed that there is already some internal <br>
>investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things <br>
>done.<br>
<br>
Mr. Folayan,<br>
<br>
These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br>
that these matters are being looked into.<br>
<br>
Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
three years ago.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
<br>
I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
<br>
At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br>
the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
<br>
This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
<br>
On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br>
last be forthcoming?<br>
<br>
>I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are <br>
>established, the law should take its course and people should stand <br>
>accountable for their deeds.<br>
<br>
This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
<br>
1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br>
publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br>
are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br>
presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
<br>
2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be persuasively<br>
demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br>
purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
<br>
3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic<br>
within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br>
have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
<br>
4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br>
AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br>
may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
<br>
>I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund <br>
>organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 <br>
>years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover <br>
>the manipulations.<br>
<br>
On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,<br>
while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
staff even noticed any of this?<br>
<br>
>For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal <br>
>department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
<br>
See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
<br>
If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
<br>
>While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf <br>
>of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, <br>
>with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should <br>
>rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are <br>
>available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our <br>
>time and intellect.<br>
<br>
See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br>
so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal<br>
and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
<br>
For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed<br>
under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br>
AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.<br>
<br>
I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br>
will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br>
this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br>
insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
<br>
Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable<br>
requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base. Exactly<br>
such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br>
request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br>
WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br>
out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br>
was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
<br>
At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for<br>
this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br>
without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for<br>
the rejection of such requests.<br>
<br>
<br>
P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
<br>
First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more insultingly<br>
however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged<br>
to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br>
with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
allocations.<br>
<br>
I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br>
registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy<br>
<a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization. These<br>
blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br>
U.S. dollars.<br>
<br>
As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
AFRINIC.<br>
<br>
I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br>
appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br>
on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
<br>
Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification<br>
with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br>
noted.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 11<br>
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In message <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>>, <br>
Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>I know what sparked this story.<br>
<br>
If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.<br>
Please proceed.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 12<br>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100<br>
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Sunday, all,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me tell why.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take advantage of that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest. My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees on that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very thankful for that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Jordi<br>
<br>
@jordipalet<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy space.<br>
<br>
The community has been informed that there is already some internal investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established, the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for their deeds.<br>
<br>
I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the common good?<br>
<br>
For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
<br>
While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and intellect.<br>
<br>
Sunday. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
<br>
Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
<br>
Mark.<br>
<br>
On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
<br>
Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? <br>
<br>
I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. <br>
<br>
Thanks. <br>
<br>
Sunday. <br>
<br>
On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following <br>
news story. <br>
<br>
<a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a> <br>
I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I only <br>
wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen <br>
is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. <br>
Regards, <br>
rfg <br>
<br>
<br>
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-- <br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
Managing Director<br>
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
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Message: 13<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100<br>
From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
<br>
Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as <br>
this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we <br>
both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.<br>
<br>
Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email. <br>
Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to <br>
<a href="mailto:ceo@afrinic.net" target="_blank">ceo@afrinic.net</a>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not <br>
ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions <br>
you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard <br>
nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.<br>
<br>
I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done, <br>
and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not <br>
some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently <br>
ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the <br>
company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.<br>
<br>
I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should <br>
conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more <br>
honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. <br>
It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
<br>
My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one <br>
of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately <br>
that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should, <br>
because you rightly built on their work!<br>
<br>
Great job you are doing.<br>
<br>
Have a great day.<br>
<br>
Sunday.<br>
<br>
On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
> In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> done.<br>
> Mr. Folayan,<br>
><br>
> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br>
> that these matters are being looked into.<br>
><br>
> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
> three years ago.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
><br>
> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
><br>
> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
> courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br>
> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
> either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
><br>
> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
><br>
> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br>
> last be forthcoming?<br>
><br>
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> accountable for their deeds.<br>
> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
><br>
> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
> in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br>
> publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br>
> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br>
> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
><br>
> 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be persuasively<br>
> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br>
> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
><br>
> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic<br>
> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br>
> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
><br>
> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br>
> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br>
> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
><br>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> the manipulations.<br>
> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,<br>
> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
> staff even noticed any of this?<br>
><br>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
><br>
> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
><br>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br>
>> time and intellect.<br>
> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br>
> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal<br>
> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
><br>
> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed<br>
> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br>
> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.<br>
><br>
> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br>
> will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> rfg<br>
><br>
><br>
> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br>
> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br>
> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
> for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
><br>
> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable<br>
> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base. Exactly<br>
> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br>
> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br>
> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br>
> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br>
> was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
><br>
> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for<br>
> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br>
> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for<br>
> the rejection of such requests.<br>
><br>
><br>
> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
><br>
> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more insultingly<br>
> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged<br>
> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br>
> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
> allocations.<br>
><br>
> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br>
> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy<br>
> <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization. These<br>
> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br>
> U.S. dollars.<br>
><br>
> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
> AFRINIC.<br>
><br>
> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br>
> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br>
> on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification<br>
> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br>
> noted.<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
Managing Director<br>
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
---------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 14<br>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Mr. Folayan,<br>
<br>
Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br>
<br>
At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
<br>
<br>
In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>, <br>
Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should <br>
>conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more <br>
>honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. <br>
>It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
<br>
Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
<br>
Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
<br>
If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
<br>
The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 15<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100<br>
From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>, General<br>
Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com" target="_blank">8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing <br>
sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.<br>
<br>
I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not <br>
constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the <br>
ongoing investigations.<br>
<br>
Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals, <br>
when the investigations are completed.<br>
<br>
I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br>
<br>
Sunday.<br>
<br>
On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Sunday, all,<br>
><br>
> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let <br>
> me tell why.<br>
><br>
> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My <br>
> first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly <br>
> after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could <br>
> contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and <br>
> joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training <br>
> so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
><br>
> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, <br>
> I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the <br>
> Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from <br>
> Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do <br>
> the training.<br>
><br>
> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, <br>
> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been <br>
> doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been <br>
> able to take advantage of that.<br>
><br>
> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as <br>
> well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much <br>
> together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost <br>
> 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a <br>
> hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But <br>
> I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br>
><br>
> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the <br>
> position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think <br>
> you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you <br>
> will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your <br>
> family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly <br>
> and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean <br>
> he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or <br>
> something similar.<br>
><br>
> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. <br>
> If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
><br>
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, <br>
> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and <br>
> involvement an all this.<br>
><br>
> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal <br>
> interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure <br>
> everybody agrees on that.<br>
><br>
> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so <br>
> no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very <br>
> thankful for that.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Jordi<br>
><br>
> @jordipalet<br>
><br>
> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>> escribi?:<br>
><br>
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway <br>
> suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only <br>
> on legacy space.<br>
><br>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal <br>
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things <br>
> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are <br>
> established, the law should take its course and people should stand <br>
> accountable for their deeds.<br>
><br>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund <br>
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of <br>
> 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to <br>
> discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or <br>
> in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the <br>
> Registry for the common good?<br>
><br>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their <br>
> legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with <br>
> gusto by now.<br>
><br>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf <br>
> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, <br>
> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should <br>
> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are <br>
> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of <br>
> our time and intellect.<br>
><br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
><br>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there<br>
> appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy<br>
> space.<br>
><br>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the<br>
> problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
><br>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then<br>
> moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired<br>
> outcome.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
><br>
> Mark.<br>
><br>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
><br>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically<br>
> ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet<br>
> in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces<br>
> under some form of RSA?<br>
><br>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let<br>
> us see how to help and empower the people doing useful<br>
> work for Africa.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
> Sunday.<br>
><br>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
><br>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think<br>
> about the following<br>
> news story.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
><br>
> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?<br>
> For the moment, I only<br>
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by<br>
> myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
> ? ? Regards,<br>
> rfg<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
><br>
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><br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
><br>
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><br>
> -- <br>
> --------------------------------------------------<br>
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
> Managing Director<br>
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
> <a href="mailto:Email%3Asfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">Email:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>>,<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss <br>
> mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> **********************************************<br>
> IPv4 is over<br>
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
> The IPv6 Company<br>
><br>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged <br>
> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive <br>
> use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty <br>
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of <br>
> this information, even if partially, including attached files, is <br>
> strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you <br>
> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, <br>
> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if <br>
> partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be <br>
> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original <br>
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><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
Managing Director<br>
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
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Message: 16<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200<br>
From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.<br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
:-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to hear from the CEO<br>
<br>
Omo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 17<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100<br>
From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com" target="_blank">c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
<br>
On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
> Mr. Folayan,<br>
><br>
> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br>
><br>
> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
><br>
><br>
> In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br>
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
><br>
> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
><br>
> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
> I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
><br>
> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
> tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
<br>
<br>
This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.<br>
<br>
If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank <br>
you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far. <br>
History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this <br>
point in time.<br>
<br>
When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not <br>
envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves. <br>
Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more <br>
oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet. <br>
That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they <br>
will come.<br>
<br>
With kind Regards ...<br>
<br>
Sunday.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 18<br>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In message <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>>, <br>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>I also believe that he is a smart guy.<br>
<br>
I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.<br>
<br>
>So, put yourself in the position of <br>
>a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your o<br>
>wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,=C2=A0<br>
> may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in an<br>
>y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.<br>
<br>
And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much<br>
as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked<br>
at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in<br>
particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to<br>
these ones:<br>
<br>
ORG-AI2-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD</a><br>
ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB</a><br>
ORG-IA41-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP</a><br>
ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW</a><br>
ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N</a><br>
<br>
I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years<br>
now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them<br>
are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It<br>
is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the<br>
false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some<br>
sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are<br>
stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide<br>
what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief<br>
of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of everyone...<br>
if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say<br>
"Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"<br>
<br>
>So maybe<br>
>somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty =E2=80=9Cin<br>
>vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br>
<br>
It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this possibility<br>
Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,<br>
appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an<br>
unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.<br>
<br>
>Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do, despite <br>
>documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents may<br>
>not be enough.<br>
<br>
I agree.<br>
<br>
That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time<br>
carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records<br>
associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two<br>
tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as<br>
I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in<br>
any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance<br>
on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question<br>
becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various<br>
official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become<br>
very relevant.<br>
<br>
>So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br>
>may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement<br>
>an all this.<br>
<br>
I would like to echo that sentiment.<br>
<br>
Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant<br>
time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone numbers<br>
that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,<br>
at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable to<br>
do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting his<br>
side of the story, if he has one.<br>
<br>
That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain<br>
reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than<br>
a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts<br>
arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC<br>
after 15 years on the job.<br>
<br>
His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our<br>
inquiries.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 19<br>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In message <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>>, <br>
Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's<br>
>wait to hear from the CEO<br>
<br>
Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?<br>
<br>
Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?<br>
<br>
Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><b><font size="4" color="#33ccff">Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb</font></b><div><font color="#993300"><i><b><a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></b></i></font></div><div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 - 8077377378</font></b></i></div><div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 - 07030777969</font></b></i></div></div></div>