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<div style="font-size: 10pt;"><div dir="auto">Andrew ,<br><br>You seem to be mixing things and on purpose.<br><br>Whether the initial submission documents are missing or that policies do not explicitly prohibit usage out of continent, or say how Afrinic can enforce A or B is irrelevant to the discussions of putting in place a review process for a RIR.<br><br>All current and future conditions shall be factored in when doing such reviews.<br><br>Matching initial justifications is just one aspect. The conditions of service are clear on other aspects.<br><br>Also AFRINIC is a Regional Internet Registry and not yet a global registry and conditions under which a member whose *<b>network*</b> expand multiple regions use resources are also known.<br><br>Regarding the point about member who requested resources for dialup services and now using them for GPON breaching policies:<br><br>RSA requires that member use the resources for what they have been requested for, but demand that in case of change in plans and usage, member to promptly, accurately and fully notify Afrinic. Failure to notify Afrinic would constitue a breach, but member under review will have chance to rectify the situation.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">--Gregoire</div></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"><div id="LGEmailHeader" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">------ Original message------</div><div dir="auto"><b>From: </b>Andrew Alston<andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com></andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com></div><div dir="auto"><b>Date: </b>Wed, Dec 19, 2018 4:02 AM</div><div dir="auto"><b>To: </b>Chevalier du Borg;Jackson Muthili;</div><div dir="auto"><b>Cc: </b>General Discussions of AFRINIC;</div><div dir="auto"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><div dir="auto">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Just for clarity –<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If space was allocated before the soft landing policy came into force – there was no policy whatsoever that prohibited off continent use of space – so – if you got space from AFRINIC – under the
allocation policies – you could use it off continent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If an African registered company had every piece of infrastructure off continent – nothing would stop them getting space and using it globally – that changed with the soft landing coming into force
– but allocations before that? Didn’t matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The soft landing policy also was not retro-active – so the restrictions on it only apply to space allocated since it came into force.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What the policy *<b>does</b>* say is that space must be used in the manner described in the initial application. Now – that’s where things get real interesting. Firstly – there is no guidance as
to how strictly AFRINIC could enforce this – and it’s kinda bizarre – because people who applied for space back years ago in the dial up era that want to use the space today for GPON – if their application stated they wanted it to number dial up users – technically
– they would be in violation and subject to space reclamation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is also *<b>NO</b>* method in the policies that I could find to change the stated purpose of use – that creates a very dangerous situation should someone choose to be stupid and malicious.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Then – we get to the fact that – since AFRINIC has publically admitted that they have corrupt data going back past a certain point – there is a very high degree of probability that without the attachments
– you can’t even tell what the space was originally applied for – and hence – if it was allocated pre soft landing – and that documentation that describes its purpose is missing – well – the responsibility is on AFRINIC to prove that you are using it for something
you didn’t ask for – else – it’s pretty much a free for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">By my calculations – and based on the approximate dates I have – they are missing the attachments on applications for close to a /8 worth of space… and I would argue VERY strongly that in the absence
of that documentation – it is impossible to do a fair and impartial review of use of space – since you cannot prove what it was allocated for in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Interesting times <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Chevalier du Borg <a href="mailto:<virtual.borg@gmail.com"><virtual.borg@gmail.com< a="">>
</virtual.borg@gmail.com<></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 December 2018 08:19<br>
<b>To:</b> Jackson Muthili <a href="mailto:<jacksonmuthi@gmail.com"><jacksonmuthi@gmail.com< a="">></jacksonmuthi@gmail.com<></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> General Discussions of AFRINIC <a href="mailto:<community-discuss@afrinic.net"><community-discuss@afrinic.net< a="">></community-discuss@afrinic.net<></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le mer. 19 déc. 2018 à 08:40, Jackson Muthili <<a href="mailto:jacksonmuthi@gmail.com">jacksonmuthi@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
clearly nobody is against the general idea of the custodians of the IP<br>
resources allocated to Africa to check that these are used for the<br>
purpose they have been allocated to us as you put it.<br>
<br>
it is the how.<br>
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for as long as the proposed process is prone to abuse, sorry it cant fly.<br>
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by the way, is there anything stopping AfriNIC to carry out audit as<br>
allowed through registration service agreement (rsa)? if no, why are<br>
we even having this discussion??<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you very much M. Jackson. I think we should not try to use policy where process is what is need. Since no person disagree that it is part of AFRINIC job, then it should publish a clear process that they use to do review. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The existence of this policy seem to mean community don't trust that such process exist and better communication may solve that. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My first reason for start this thread is more about our PDP being broke and need to be fix to protect it from hijack some large entity. Larus particularly consern me because it say on their website, under one of their product "IP DELEGATION
SERVICE" (<a href="https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service">https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><<LARUS possesses seasoned expert in IP address policy. To focus on providing unmatched IPv4 address solutions in the world, IP addresses will be delegated to you directly from LARUS’s own IP pool. You will use the IP addresses like your
own without limitation regarding geography and usage. This is a flexible and speedy service to meet your business needs.>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">i Are we sure these IP are not part of what Larus get from AFRINIC? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">ii If it is, is that accepted use of IP according to RSA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">iii How does company that have IP to sell justify needing more address?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">These are thing that make me (and other people) concern and good answer to them will make thing clear for this community. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
J<br>
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> Boubakar<br>
><br>
>> For<br>
>> me this is very bad. It means there are underlying principles in this<br>
>> proposal that have not been properly written nor their ramifications<br>
>> properly explained.<br>
>><br>
>> J<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Borg le Chevalier<br>
___________________________________<br>
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" <o:p></o:p></p>
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