<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Andrew<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your comment below is noted (and I have no doubt you can find dozens more examples). I am sure you feel this justified your initial remark.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Marcus’ affront is also noted and I think it is likewise justified.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I do not think that this is the best place to develop definitions of racism.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My request is that you please withdraw your initial remark and let us move forward.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are extreme examples of uncivil behaviour on this list by many people. In the historical context of this continent, I think we must be very circumspect in ascribing racist motivations to uncivil behaviour.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Mike </div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 28 Jun 2018, at 14:04, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Marcus,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">I refer you to this as one example which was seen on the RPD list – and similar has been seen on this list – I’ll go and dig it all out if need be – but my statements stand across all lists:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008011.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008011.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Because that email then refers to an HTML attachment – which is very difficult to read – the rough translation of the last paragraph of that email (thanks google translate) said the following:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">If we want to develop, we real Africans must rather fight against the yoke of the companies you mentioned. And I think that for all my brothers supporting your remarks, I could only remember those words of SAMORA MACHEL. "The day you hear the whites talking about me well, that day, do not share your secrets with me anymore, because that would mean that I would have betrayed you already."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">That – is what I am referring to.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">"Marcus K. G. Adomey" <<a href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" class="">madomey@hotmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, 27 June 2018 at 18:50<br class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Andrew,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">> at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Your statement above must be backed up with facts.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an accusation with immediate and utmost urgency!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Marcus<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Get<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Outlook for Android</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center" class=""></div><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="" class="">From:</span></b><span style="" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Arnaud AMELINA<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div id="compose-container" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Arnaud,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one of them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not an “afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet exchange list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that sometimes Afrinic matters come up there.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do so.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this community taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see a point in anything more. Especially something as what I still believe is wide open to attack.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about someone who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in contravention of adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the review policy to deal with such<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Andrew<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center" class=""></div><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="" class="">From:</span></b><span style="" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Andrew Alston<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Alan Barrett; <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear Community, <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Alan,<br class=""><br class="">Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.<br class=""><br class="">Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight<br class=""><br class="">a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get quorum to host another AGMM - which is a ....<br class="">i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular sale of IP space<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hmmmm. Since when did the NAP list became a forum to discuss AFRINIC matters that the CEO commits to? A special list for a certain community? Double standards?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Is he asking for investigation on allocated address space while he is strongly opposed to the review policy proposal? <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">As discussed over and over, we are reaching a stage where review of resources usage and investigation when required has become critical to AFRINIC operation<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem - because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems with the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about. If however - you are saying that members must ask their questions in the dark and out of sight of this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the precepts of transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.<br class="">.....<br class=""><br class="">The questions will continue - if not on the community list - then on the member list - if not on the members list - on other forums - I do not mind which - but - until AFRINIC is prepared to be the transparent organisation it claims to be - I will continue to ask the public questions and stand by every single one of them.<br class=""><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class=""><br class=""><span class="gmail-hoenzb">Andrew</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Arnaud<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Community-Discuss mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>